Whats the art of BMW gear Change

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james_death

Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby james_death » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:10 am

Hi all this may well sound a daft question but please bear with me!!!
I got a used r1100r 2000 model a couple of months back have had to much on at home to really get out as yet.
Now when i picked bike up she was great rode superb just as told usual clunky box.
Hoewever when i got into local town the gear change got very difficult in that i could feel the gears about to grind in.
I had to pull over and they sellected with just the usuall clunk but not grating.
Took her out locally the other week for a run and i often got neutral instead of second.
So just went to snick second or first again but had to pull over a couple of times as again it felt as though they would grind together again.
Is there a art to this the previous owner said it just needs a light touch to change the gears!!
Is it best to snick second as soon as you start rolling/
Or is something fu-bard?
All the best,
James

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby bmwchaz » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Hmm sounds like something is amiss - on these bikes there is a distinct clunk/graunch changing from 2nd to 3rd unless you pre-load the lever then clutch in and change up gently. I'd suspect the gearbox oil as a cheap and easy first suspect - drain and refill with a quality 90W gear oil rather than the lighter spec suggested by BMW. Check that the linkage between lever and box is in good order as well - on my 1100RT the big pivot bolt nearly fell out, made changes very suspect.

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aero

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby aero » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:45 pm

Actually, once you've done the above, book yourself a test ride at a Harley dealer. After half an hour on one the Beemer gear change will be silky smooth :-"

james_death

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby james_death » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:11 am

Thanks folks for the advice and the laugh :grin:

rapidricc

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby rapidricc » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:41 pm

I have come to the BM from a series of sport bikes and a Honda Pan. All had reasonably smooth gear changes and probably the worst was a Ducati 748 next worst the Pan.

None of the above compare even closely to the roughness of my Brand new R1200 RT.

Is there something that can be done to alleviate the down shift quality, I feel embarrassed when changing down in the high street where I live,,, every one looks round to see if I have hit something or fallen off !

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Bandytales » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:45 pm

Is there a art to this the previous owner said it just needs a light touch to change the gears!!
Is it best to snick second as soon as you start rolling/
James
Check the linkage from the gear lever to the gearbox.
If the clamp onto the gearbox spline is loose or indeed any of the other parts of that linkage, then you may not be moving the shaft far enough to get an engagement.
Also you may find that the gear lever is fouling against the slot in the LH foot plate.
See what you can find.
Andy
Bandytales

Vince

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Vince » Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:22 pm

I have come to the BM from a series of sport bikes and a Honda Pan. All had reasonably smooth gear changes and probably the worst was a Ducati 748 next worst the Pan.

None of the above compare even closely to the roughness of my Brand new R1200 RT.

Is there something that can be done to alleviate the down shift quality, I feel embarrassed when changing down in the high street where I live,,, every one looks round to see if I have hit something or fallen off !
Would that be dropping into 1st at a slow speed while still rolling? If so try this (takes a bit of practise but works for me 9 times outta ten)
From 2nd drop it into neutral, release clutch, then pull clutch in and a fraction of a second after pulling clutch in drop into 1st. I get a smooth downchange this way most of the time. With practise it can be done very quickly.
hth
\v/

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Stitch » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:47 pm

Ahhhh..........the dark art of double-declutching :evil:

My Series 1 Land Rover had no syncromesh in first or second, so you really had to be able to do this.

With the oil-heads, another way of going about the 2nd to 1st change is not to do it until you've reached walking pace, then it goes into 1st quietly (relatively speaking, you understand.....)

Cheers, Stitch.
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Vince

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Vince » Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:39 pm

The walking pace doesn't appear to work with my box. Although TBH I automaticaly do the DC thing now for dropping into 1st. The first gear selection from start up also required the clutch to be let out a little to enable a smooth engagement.

Aside from that I would say the box is smoother and more positive in operation then the VFR750 I had previously. I prefer the box on this ST to the VFR one any day.

bmkev

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby bmkev » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:50 am

Following on from the discussion on changing from 2nd to 1st, I find that sometimes if I "miss" it, then there's no way I can get out of neutral while still rolling. The gearbox grinds either going towards 1st or 2nd. This only happens if I've stayed in neutral for a few seconds - extremely rare, rest assured, then I have to stop the bike to get into gear (sometimes a bit embarassing! :oops: )
This may be normal, but I thought I'd just mention it.

Kev ('03 R1150RS)

Vince

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Vince » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:23 am

I spose we should be aware there are a couple of different gearbox designs with different quirks.

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Bandytales » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:46 am

Thanks folks for the advice and the laugh :grin:
Have you checked that linkage yet?

Andy
Bandytales

bluedelta

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby bluedelta » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:49 am

I have a 2002 r1150rt (20.000 miles). I found the gear change difficult boardering on impossible.! After three months of riding I have found the best results were gained by pre loading the lever (up or down) and making the change firmly quickly and immediatly the clutch is pulled.... On the down change this has to be coulped with careful throttle control. ie. open throttle to give neutral effect that is neither accelerating or slowing down. At this point a small blip of the thottle synchronised with the down change for me is the best I can get. Get it all correct and the gear falls into place with no metalic click... Why it all has to be so involved I do not know as a Jap. four cyclinder hire bike I rode for a week was a joy to change gear on and the worst change was a good change by BMW standards. Mike..

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby STrider » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:06 am

Check your clutch adjustment too.. in case it is dragging. You do need to keep the gearchange linkage clean as well, build up of dirt can tighten things up.
John

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Dan Gleebitz

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Dan Gleebitz » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:56 pm

Changing gear on a Beemer is like making love to a woman ... it should never be hurried ... start off slowly and don't just ram it in..... perform the act with feeling to ensure satisfaction ..once in, make sure it does not slip out until the act is satisfactorilly completed.... once completed, relax and contemplate doing it again ..... :lol:

boatman51

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby boatman51 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Hi all,i feel that everyone who owns a boxer has had some difficulty at times as i did,i agree pre-loading of the gear lever is the way to go,but would also add that at what ever revs you change gear at for me that is around 3,000,i tend to hold on to the revs untill the motor is singing as i put it,this is when there is less load on the crankshaft and also less thrust on the gear box resulting in a very smooth quiet shift 90% of he time. Down shift as sombody else said a good blip helps the sycros to mess smoothly.

Bernie..1100rt

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby STrider » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:51 pm

Changing gear on a Beemer is like making love to a woman ... it should never be hurried ... start off slowly and don't just ram it in..... perform the act with feeling to ensure satisfaction ..once in, make sure it does not slip out until the act is satisfactorilly completed.... once completed, relax and contemplate doing it again ..... :lol:

Jeez Dan...I always wondered why your better half wears that enigmatic smile...now I know! You hero you!!!
John

F800GS

rapidricc

Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby rapidricc » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:06 pm

Changing gear on a Beemer is like making love to a woman ... it should never be hurried ... start off slowly and don't just ram it in..... perform the act with feeling to ensure satisfaction ..once in, make sure it does not slip out until the act is satisfactorilly completed.... once completed, relax and contemplate doing it again ..... :lol:
Who needs gear oil \:D/

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Bandytales » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:19 am

Have you checked that linkage yet and clutch cable adjustment (both ends of the clutch cable)?

Andy
Bandytales

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby rangioran » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:54 pm

An old post I know, but one of the very best answers to an oilhead technical question I can ever remember seeing!

Nice one Dan, tried to message you but it appears that you may no longer be on the forum - thanks anyhow, bought a smile to my face! =D>

Changing gear on a Beemer is like making love to a woman ... it should never be hurried ... start off slowly and don't just ram it in..... perform the act with feeling to ensure satisfaction ..once in, make sure it does not slip out until the act is satisfactorilly completed.... once completed, relax and contemplate doing it again ..... :lol:

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby eburr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:14 am

Common question. Here is what I found relative to my 2000 R1100rt with under 12K miles, bought last year with only 6500K.

1.) Ridden like a Japanese bike, my R1100rt crunches a little going into 2nd, and grinds noticeably on 3rd gear up-shifts. I also experienced very notchy and occasionally missed downshifts. In short, it sounded pretty awful and I was ready to get rid of the clunky heap shortly after buying it.
2.) After studying the issue in depth online I discovered that TADT (they all do that), or at least to some degree. I still think, however, that it is a funky gear box design. It may be rugged, but it certainly isn't a pleasant beast to shift.
3.) My preferred techniques to minimize issues are a.) pre-loading the shift level lightly with my toe before up-shifting (it certainly isn't an intuitive technique, but helps a lot), b.) tapping the lever up with my toe first without the clutch to "wake the trans the f'k up", and then pulling the clutch lever in only 20-25% of its travel and then shifting, and c.) blipping the throttle right before down shifts and then shifting it down with authority.
d.) Never attempting to down shift into first faster than walking speed (or it will grind)!

All of the above, when remembered and practiced religiously can make a pleasant and trouble free day of riding. But if I forget to do the above, it will make noises that sound like I am grinding my 2nd and 3rd gears, or will find myself, when downshifting, occasionally landing in the no man's land of the meat-grinder/garbage disposal sounding "E" zone on the gear display.

Incidentally, my other BMW a 04' Rockster (R1150r) exhibits none of these behaviors and shifts far better than the R1100rt. I understand, however, that for my R1100rt, however, this weird shifting behavior is pretty typical. I have changed to Redline ShockProof synthetic gear lube (to little avail) and have also disassembled and reassembled the shift linkage several times to no effect. But when I am careful and thoughtful about shifting using the tips above, it's shifting is somewhat reasonable. I love the way the bike feels and rides, but the transmission is certainly a weak link from a design standpoint in an otherwise great package.

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby AnRuaRi » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:12 pm


3.) My preferred techniques to minimize issues are a.) pre-loading the shift level lightly with my toe before up-shifting (it certainly isn't an intuitive technique, but helps a lot), b.) tapping the lever up with my toe first without the clutch to "wake the trans the f'k up", and then pulling the clutch lever in only 20-25% of its travel and then shifting, and c.) blipping the throttle right before down shifts and then shifting it down with authority.
d.) Never attempting to down shift into first faster than walking speed (or it will grind)!
I'm on an 1150RS. I note the user manual says: "
to change to first gear, pull in the clutch, and press down on the gear lever.
To change from first gear to second gear: pull in the clutch lever and raise the gear pedal.
to change from second gear upward: raise the gear pedal (note there's no mention of the clutch!!!)

To change down a gear, pull in the clutch lever and press down on the gear pedal.
"

I read about the "clutchless gear change".
***) never use this technique to go from neutral to 1st

1) pre-load the gear lever.
2) blip the throttle
3) gear changes effortlessly with no grinding.
never force the lever.
this takes a little practice but results in vastly smoother gear changes on my 1150RS
This is the technique described by eburr - but he's easing the pressure on the clutch at the same time (without completely declutching)

The manual does not recommend this technique for downshifting. This is noticeably harder to master on the downshift, as it can (depending on if you are using engine braking) require a slight up-blip on the throttle.
Ruairí O'Dúill
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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby sykospain » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Just take a test-ride on a Honda NC750 with DCT - their revolutionary Dual Clutch Technology. You'll never want to put up with BMW gearbox characteristics ever again !
And a new one is HALF the price of a new R1200....and four times the quality and durability. BMW is no longer a quality marque.
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike.

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby King Herald » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:50 pm

I found an easy way around it: wear ear plugs.

Seriously, my 96 r1100 is horrendously noisy, tyre noisy, dinosaur gear changes, wind rush, unbearable without ear plugs.

The gear change I tend to grab a full handful of clutch, pause, give it a positive full gear change, pause, then let clutch out.

My Bandit 1200 shifts are impossible to feel, they just happen, compared to the Beemer. But then the Bandit is so tractable and smooth I rarely change gear once above 30 mph.....

Now, the Bandit drive train in the Beemer rolling stock.....that would be cool.
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Re: Whats the art of BMW gear Change

Postby Tango » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:58 pm

Just take a test-ride on a Honda NC750 with DCT - their revolutionary Dual Clutch Technology. You'll never want to put up with BMW gearbox characteristics ever again !
And a new one is HALF the price of a new R1200....and four times the quality and durability. BMW is no longer a quality marque.
Or you could buy a push bike, much cheaper than a Honda and far better on fuel. Or you could take a bus or taxi, or maybe walk. Or perhaps stay in for the day and bake a cake.
Regards,
Marty
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