Engine speed range

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King Herald
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Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:48 pm

Been out on my bike again today, and trying to get to grips with what rpm it feels comfortable at.

Cruising long fairly curved A roads I always seem to find myself at too low rpm, and it seems it needs to be spinning above 3000rpm to feel 'comfortable' if I want to accelerate at all. However, if I give it a good twist it will literally leap forward, so it is not actually bogging down, just feels a touch 'reluctant' to go with small throttle adjustments.

So what engine speed range, max and minimum range do must guys use when just cruising gently along enjoying the ride? What engine speeds do you change up at, or change down?

On my Bandit 1200 it will drop to 1500rpm in top and still pull smooth and clean if I twist it on, but the BMW actually seems to go almost as quick, with less fuss, when you want it to. :lol:
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

gogs01
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby gogs01 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:20 am

What bike are you riding ?
Current BMW : 2017MY R1200RT LE in Platinum Bronze :smile:
Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:26 am

R1100R. Is there much difference between any of the oil head motors? I'm pretty new to BMW, this is my first, only had it a month. :grin:
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:41 am

R1100R. Is there much difference between any of the oil head motors? I'm pretty new to BMW, this is my first, only had it a month. :grin:


With regard to the Oilhead motors only, you have:

The R850 Series
The R1100 Series
The R1150 Series
The R1200C (Cruiser [known as a Chromehead]).

As far as I am aware, the engines of the above are all quite similar apart from the cc differences.

There is a difference in the engine management regarding the Engine Control Units (ECUs):

Bosch Motronic MA2.1 is used by the R1100 Series.
Bosch Motronic MA2.2 is used by the R850, R1150 and R1200C series.

MA2.1 is the early 'dumb' ECU which has no active learning capability and uses fixed data tables built into the ECU to supply the various operating parameters.
There is no provision for catalytic sensor operation.

MA2.2 is the 2nd generation ECU which has a learning capability to alter the default operating parameter tables consistent with maintaining efficient operation of the engine.
It can support the use of catalytic convertor sensors for maintaining better emissions control.

Incidently, if a diagnostic tester such as the Hex-code GS911 is being considered for maintenance purposes, then there is little benefit in purchasing this for the MA2.1 ECU as no 'active' data streams can be read from this ECU.
A basic Fault Code Reader for the MA2.1 ECU is sold by Motobins and provides much the same info as the very more expensive GS911 is able to with this ECU.

The MA2.2 ECU however does allow 'active' data streams to be read and the GS911 is very useful to have in this respect where 'real-time' data being processed by the ECU can be displayed.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:12 pm

Thanks for the info on different models, but, er anybody have anything to say about the sort of rpm range they feel best to stay Within?
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby jimc » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:53 am

Rev range

What is the weather like?
What are the road conditions ?
What's the chamber of the approaching bend? Positive negative?
Is it in shadow, light to shadow, opening up tightening up?
Raining,damp,fog,mist,cold,warm?
Morning,noon,evening,
Head wind tail wind side wind?
Tractors buses artics motor homes caravans pedal cyclists?
Dogs cats pheasants pigeons pedestrians?
Signage signals road works?
Mood of rider uptight frustrated,relaxed,positive?
Riding gear fitting comfortable 2day, riding position feel right just now?
Position on carriage way,
In tune with machine?

Do you want me to keep going?
Just enjoy it

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:14 am

If you're in the mood, rev its nuts off!

Otherwise, let the bike tell you what its happy with!
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

King Herald
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:17 am

Well, I thought I was asking a fairly simple question......
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:35 am

Well, I thought I was asking a fairly simple question......

We can soon complicate that here......
You will learn... :smile:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby jimc » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:46 am

I do believe the answer is in the last paragraph of the first post...

The beamer is far better at getting there than the bandit at any stage of the rev range,

Not interested in a debate on my blue thing is better than your turquoise
Use or abuse the thing for that time ......

Just go home ALIVE with a stupid grin on your face

Jim

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby gogs01 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:48 pm

..... What engine speeds do you change up at, or change down?

On my Bandit 1200 it will drop to 1500rpm in top and still pull smooth and clean if I twist it on, but the BMW actually seems to go almost as quick, with less fuss, when you want it to. :lol:
I think you've really answered your own question - any boxer will feel different to a four cylinder bike like the Bandit. Fours generally have a wider rev range than twins. It's a bit like going from a petrol engine car to a diesel - they're different to drive, but you can learn to switch back and forth.

Enjoy the Bandit and the R1100R - don't worry about the rev counter, just go by feel and they can both be a lot of fun in their different styles.

FWIW, I generally changed up between 3500 - 4000 RPM and, if I wanted to have any "go", changed down before it got below 2000 RPM but, as has been said, if in a hurry it would happily rev to 7000 through the gears or, if dawdling, it would happily trickle along in the lower gears down to 1500 RPM. Hope that helps. :smile:
Current BMW : 2017MY R1200RT LE in Platinum Bronze :smile:
Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:50 pm

Thanks, That sounds pretty much like I'm discovering. If I want to 'press on' I need it above about 3500 rpm.

I'm still getting used to it, but it always seems to feel clumsy, jerky, at lower rpm, at very low throttle openings. It may need some carb balancing I assume.
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Sat May 06, 2017 9:19 am

R1100R. Is there much difference between any of the oil head motors? I'm pretty new to BMW, this is my first, only had it a month. :grin:




MA2.1 is the early 'dumb' ECU which has no active learning capability and uses fixed data tables built into the ECU to supply the various operating parameters.
There is no provision for catalytic sensor operation.
.

Mine is a '96 model. This would explain why there is no sort of oxygen sensor or connection in my exhaust system I guess.

Does that mean I can swap the pipes out without any problem, or will it mess up the running?

Is there any facility to re-tune the injection system to accommodate any changes, or is it a hi-tech rolling road and computer job?
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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george baker
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby george baker » Sat May 06, 2017 10:18 am

Hi
there are 3 or 4 different gearboxes, some with 5 and others with 6 speeds -- so the number of gears probably change the revs you ride at as well. There are different ratio bevel boxes

I have had some Airheads (I know this is an oilhead question..so ignore it if you wish) and people always say the 80 is nicer to ride than the 100, and IMO the heavy flywheel 100 is nicer to ride than the light flywheel emgine. I found the R80R easier in town traffic than the R100R, not sure if it was where the power is in the revs or the bevel box ratio.

The R1200C has, iirc, more torque at lower revs than the other oilheads but less power.

Simple questions get complex answers here, but often vice versa

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Engine speed range

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat May 06, 2017 10:36 am

Does that mean I can swap the pipes out without any problem, or will it mess up the running?

Changing pipes can affect the engine performance due to different exhaust resonant frequencies caused by pipe length, cavity resonance and back pressure.
The aim is to get the exhaust system into resonance so that it helps extract exhaust gases faster and draw in maximum fuel charge.


Is there any facility to re-tune the injection system to accommodate any changes, or is it a hi-tech rolling road and computer job?

Yes but it involves re-mapping the ECU Tables.
It is usually done while the bike is on a rolling road and the power output monitored.
There is a risk that the Euro emissions standard for the bike is breached.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Re: Engine speed range

Postby King Herald » Sat May 06, 2017 4:41 pm

I won't be too worried about Euro emissions if I do it. There are no emissions tests on bikes at MOT so nobody will ever find out.

It's just an idle thought I was having, may be a project for next winter. Thing is, the stock pipe is still in excellent condition, no damage or corrosion at all.
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200


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