R850R highbeam always on

Post your Oilhead technical queries here

Moderator: Moderators

funkygoby
Forum User
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:57 pm
Country of Residence: france

R850R highbeam always on

Postby funkygoby » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:37 pm

Hello all!

I have a strange problem with my front ligh since yesterday.
For the rest of this post (not a native english speaker), I'll will use highbeam to describe the light you use while cruising alone at nigh, the most powerful option. lowbeam for the light you tradionnaly use when other people are in front of you and you don't want to blind them.

My bike is from '98 and have the old bmw commands. The highbeam is always on no matter what. The only way to shut it off is turn off the ignition or turn off lights completely (righ yellow button) which has been illegal in my country for some years.

Here I discuss the left yellow button that controls the low/highbeam modes.
Normal behaviour:
-swicth in normal (middle) position: lowbeam only.
-push the switch upward position: lowbeam goes off and highbeam goes on instead.
-the downward position/trigger for flash signal alternates low/highbeam.

My bike behaviour (since yesterday):
-middle: low AND highbeam at the same time. Not normal!!!
-up: lowbeam goes off and high stays on. Expected behaviour.
-down: only the lowbeam is affected. Not normal!!!!

The blue led is always on btw.
So, it seems that somewhere, a switch is stuck.

I don't know if it is related but later the same day, the turn signal started acting weird. Normal blinking then fast blinking or continuously lighted on!
When I arrived home, I removed the seat for a quick midnight inspection (I had change the seat position before riding so maybe ...).
The fuse box wasn't not correctly closed (the day ride was bumpy) and I discovered there is a little foam pad that might help maintaining the fuses in place. After massaging the fuses and other electrical parts, the turn signals seem to behave normally but the highbeam is still stuck.
I am planning to inspect the fusebox and bulb a little more but maybe someone has some insight?

Thank you.

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 7819
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:44 pm

Hi funkygoby,

Welcome to the forum!

You say; "Here I discuss the left yellow button that controls the low/highbeam modes.
Normal behaviour:
-swicth in normal (middle) position: lowbeam only.
-push the switch upward position: lowbeam goes off and highbeam goes on instead.
-the downward position/trigger for flash signal alternates low/highbeam."

That is not normal, - the downward position/trigger for flash signal should activate the highbeam only.

Nonetheless, from your very good description of the symptoms, it would appear most likely that there is a fault with the Left Hand (LH) Handlebar Switch (which also has the LH Indicator Switch and Horn button).

To determine if this is indeed the case, proceed as follows:

1. Follow the cable from the LH Switch to its 8-way connector.
2. Examine the wiring on BOTH sides of the connector for any sign of rubbing on the frame or other damage.
3. Disconnect this connector.
4. With the Right Hand (RH) Light Switch OFF, switch the Ignition ON - All lights (Headlight & Side) should NOT be lit.
5. Switch the RH Light Switch to 'SIDE' - the Side Lights (Front & Tail) should be lit.
6. Switch the RH Light Switch to 'MAIN' - the Side Lights (Front & Tail) should be lit and the Headlight should NOT be lit.

If the above is all OK, then the fault would appear to be in the LH Light Switch.

Here is how to test the Headlight wiring from the disconnected LH Light Switch connector:

7. Make sure that the Ignition is ON and the RH Light Switch is OFF.
8. Using a short jumper wire on the connector half going to the Headlight (NOT going to the Switch), jumper the Green wire (8) to the Yellow wire (4) - the Lowbeam Headlight should be lit.
9. Jumper the Green wire (8) to the White wire (1) - the Highbeam Headlight and the Blue Highbeam Warning Light should be lit.
10. Using a Voltmeter set to 12v DC or a 12v Test Lamp, connect one lead to Battery Negative (earth/ground) and the other lead to the SAME connector half Yellow/White wire (7) - there should be NO +12v present.
11. Now operate the RH Light Switch to the 'MAIN' position - there should be +12v present.

If the above is all OK, then the wiring to the Headlight is OK - switch the Ignition OFF and RH Light Switch OFF.


Here is how to test the LH Light Switch from the disconnected LH Light Switch connector:

12. The testing below is carried out from the connector half going to the LH Light Switch.

Highbeam test:
13. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
14. Connect an Ohmmeter (continuity tester) to the Yellow/White wire (7) [+12v] and the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity.
15. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam).
16.There SHOULD be continuity.

Lowbeam test:
17. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam).
18. Connect an Ohmmeter (continuity tester) to the Yellow/White wire (7) [+12v] and the Yellow wire (4) [Lowbeam] - there should be NO continuity.
19. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
20. There SHOULD be continuity.

Headlight Flash test:
Note: There are TWO +12v feeds to the LH Light Switch - one is for the 'Flash' (Green/Black wire) and the other from the RH Light Switch MAIN position (Yellow/White wire).

21. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
22. Connect an Ohmmeter (continuity tester) to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v] and the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity.
23. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam) - there should be NO continuity.

24. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
25. Connect an Ohmmeter (continuity tester) to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v] and the Yellow wire (4) [Lowbeam] - there should be NO continuity.
26. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam) - there should be NO continuity.

27. Connect an Ohmmeter (continuity tester) to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v] and the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity.
28. Switch the LH Switch connector to the BOTTOM position (Flash Highbeam).
20. There SHOULD be continuity.

See how it goes! :smile:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

funkygoby
Forum User
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:57 pm
Country of Residence: france

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby funkygoby » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:52 pm

Thank you very much. Those are complete details about the headlight wiring behaviour.
I tried something this morning (before reading you post): open, clean, reassemble headlight and LH switch but nothing changed.

Taking my time with the switch, I managed to take appart everything and clean the littles plates supposed to make the connections. I noticed a strange soldering between two different wires junctions (the ones closest to you when you have the switch opend in your hand). Not sure it is supposed to be here, if it is legit then it's a bit dry. I only hope it's not a custom crappy repair going south...

I don't have a multi-meter nor a garage but I'll will take pictures and work with your guide at hand.

User avatar
george baker
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 6370
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:51 am
Country of Residence: uk
Location: Manchester,UK

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby george baker » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:22 pm

hi
i would say buy an multimeter, i think ced would say, use a test lamp

george
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 7819
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:47 pm

You don't need to have a Multi-Meter to do electrical testing.
In fact, I always say that the simple Test Lamp can be better than a Multi-Meter for voltage and continuity testing because, unlike a Voltmeter, it draws significant current which can show up bad connections.

You don't need a garage in France because, unlike Scotland, it is always sunny there! :smile:

Here is an article on how to make up and use a simple Test Lamp:

Electrical Test Lamp.txt Issue: 16/07/2017

Author: C. Mungall.
Date: 03/01/2015.
Ref: File

For electrical testing on your bike all you need is a simple 12v Test Lamp. Make this up from a 12v bulb in a holder with each of the two leads about 1 metre long with large croc clips either end.
Use a bulb between 5 and 12 Watts in the holder. You can clip a small screwdriver to one of the leads to use as a probe.

The Test Lamp is used as follows:
1. Connect the test lamp across the battery terminals - the Test Lamp should light which proves that the battery is charged and the lamp is working.

2. To test for +12v (Live) - disconnect the Test Lamp lead from the battery +12v (positive live) terminal, the Test Lamp will go out - it will light up again when you tap that lead onto a point which is at +12v (Live).

3. To test for -12v (Earth/Ground) - disconnect the Test Lamp lead from the battery -12v (negative earth/ground) terminal, the Test Lamp will go out - it will light up again when you tap that lead onto a point which is at -12v (Earth/Ground).

4. Summary:
To Probe for +12v, clip to the -12v (Battery Negative terminal).
To Probe for -12v (earth), clip to the +12v (Battery Positive terminal).

_______

To use a Test Lamp for continuity testing:
Connect an earth/ground (battery -12v) to one end of the circuit and test (probe) for the earth at the other end of the circuit. (One lead of the Test Lamp should be connected to the battery +12v). The Test Lamp will light when you probe a point which is at earth so indicating continuity of that circuit.


Here are amended instructions for using a Test Lamp instead of an Ohmmeter for LH Switch continuity testing
Here is how to test the LH Light Switch from the disconnected LH Light Switch connector using a Test Lamp:

12. The testing below is carried out from the connector half going to the LH Light Switch.

Highbeam test:
13. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
14. Using a length of wire, connect the EARTH from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the Yellow/White wire (7) [+12v].
Probe the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).
15. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam).
16.There SHOULD be continuity (Test Lamp should light).

Lowbeam test:
17. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam).
18. Using a length of wire, connect the EARTH from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the Yellow/White wire (7) [+12v].
Probe the Yellow wire (4) [Lowbeam] - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).
19. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
20. There SHOULD be continuity (Test Lamp should light).


Headlight Flash test:
Note: There are TWO +12v feeds to the LH Light Switch - one is for the 'Flash' (Green/Black wire) and the other from the RH Light Switch MAIN position (Yellow/White wire).

21. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
22. Using a length of wire, connect the EARTH from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v].
Probe the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).
23. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam) - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).

24. Switch the LH Switch connector to the MIDDLE position (Lowbeam).
25. Using a length of wire, connect the EARTH from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v].
Probe the Yellow wire (4) [Lowbeam] - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).
26. Switch the LH Switch connector to the UP position (Highbeam) - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).

27. Using a length of wire, connect the EARTH from the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the Green/Black wire (8) [+12v].
Probe the White wire (1) [Highbeam] - there should be NO continuity (Test Lamp should NOT light).
28. Switch the LH Switch connector to the BOTTOM position (Flash Highbeam).
20. There SHOULD be continuity (Test Lamp should light.

_________

See how that goes!

We have a few members in France.
When you have time, tell us something about yourself in the 'Introduce Yourself' section. :smile:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 7819
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:48 pm

hi
i would say buy an multimeter, i think ced would say, use a test lamp

george

I think you must be psychic George! :lol:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

funkygoby
Forum User
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:57 pm
Country of Residence: france

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby funkygoby » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:00 pm

I may have some time next days and my buddy might a multi-meter or a spare 12v bulb.
I'll report back for sure.

funkygoby
Forum User
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:57 pm
Country of Residence: france

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby funkygoby » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:05 pm

Problem solved!
Yellow/White feed and highbeam were shortcircuited in the LH switch.
Big thanks!

After studying Ced's tests suite, I believe I understood several things:
- Battery feeds RH switch then RH switch on 'MAIN' feeds the LH switch.
- Yellow/White wire is the +12V feed, White wire is the highbeam, Yellow wire is lowbeam.
- Green/Black wire is another +12V used for the flash signal (and turn signal + horn). I believe it doesn't depends on the RH switch being on 'MAIN' and hence, is a separate line. I need to check that.

With a friend, we ran the full test suite for completeness. I was expecting failure at one of those 2 tests: 14 or 22.
It failed at 14 only, wich means that there was a continuity between the +12V feed and the highbeam where there should be none. Basically the highbeam received juice even when using only the lowbeam.

From disassembling the LF switch last week, I remembered the strange welding between 2 plots but couldn't remember the wires's colors involved. So we disassembled the switch again and found that the 2 partially welded wires inside were Yellow/White and f***ing White!!
How this happened, I don't know...
After cutting the weld with cutter-plier, the lights behaved normally.
See picture 1 for the strange weld that needed removal.
IMG_20170913_110421.jpg
Note: LF switch isn't really hard to disasemble. 2 important things:
- horn button needs to be reassembled before putting ignition ON or else, bike will honk.
- spring may fly from horn button and from big yellow switch. Those need slow removal with a blanket under it so you can retrieve the pieces.

We reassembled everything, tried an engine start. Bike runs like sh*t! The right cylinder is not firing. 1min of wonder later, I inspected the throttle body and found the throttle cable out of it's socket (Thank you Chris/beemerboneyard for all those youtube videos!!).
After that everything was fine. The bike hums like a happy cat
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 7819
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: R850R highbeam always on

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:51 pm

Glad you got it sorted! :smile:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!


Return to “Oilhead (R1100/1150/Cruiser) Q&A's”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests