Non Adjustable screen

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MilfoilMan
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Non Adjustable screen

Postby MilfoilMan » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:45 pm

Hi Folks,
My Standard RT screen has a habit of accidentally being lowered and then not returning to the up position. I have had switch cleaner do its best and for a while all was fine. However I was out the other day and realised that the reason for my discomfort was the screen had dropped about an inch. I tried to raise it but all the switch would do is lower it further. Eventually as if by magic the switch resumed its function and I managed to get the screen fully back up after about 100km of discomfort. I'm a six footer with an inside leg of 32" and ride with the seat on the middle setting. At that, my line of sight is about 4 inches above the screen top. If I up the seat a notch the knees are better but the line of sight becomes 5 inches and discomfort sets in.
Having stripped and cleaned the switch once and have no lasting effect it seem I have two options..............
1. New switch cluster............ expensive and work intensive for something that I don't want to work at anything other than fully up.
2. Get the screen to the top and then disconnect the screen motor.
I had thought of just pulling the fuse but there are too many other things on the same fuse.
Question 1. Am I alone with this problem?
Question 2. What would be the easiest way of disconnecting the motor.?
Many thanks,
Rich
I promised myself a boxer for the past 35 yrs. Now at last a R1100RT 2001 known as "The Black Madonna, Gypsy Queen" .... "Adventure before Dementia"

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keiththeoutfitter1
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Re: Non Adjustable screen

Postby keiththeoutfitter1 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:58 pm

Sounds as if the 'up' relay has failed. There are two grey relays under the dash at the right-hand side, one to power the screen up and one for down. If you remove the screen and loosen the dash you should be able to get to them. Swap them over and see if the screen goes up and not down. If one has failed, you may as well replace both while you're in there which is what I did.
I had to ride back from Austria once with the screen down as the local dealer told me it was the motor that had failed, wanted an extortionate price for a new one and couldn't fix it for two weeks. At home new relays did the trick.
Keith

EDIT Motorworks part number
ELA93415
R1200RT
K1100RS + EZS Rally Sidecar
Kawasaki Versys 650

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P-K
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Re: Non Adjustable screen

Postby P-K » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:43 pm

Exactly.
Had the same prob myself years ago on an R1100RT.
On mine, the relay hadn't failed, it was just corrosion on the relay pins.
An easy fix.
Phil,
''93 R100GSPD : '17 R9T Urban G/S : '12 R1200R
Site Administrator, Assistant Webmaster and Official Club Tweeter @BMRidersClub

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MilfoilMan
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Re: Non Adjustable screen

Postby MilfoilMan » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:30 pm

Hi Guys,
Thanks for that. Presumably then, a relay can have an intermittent failure, thus allowing the screen to raise after an hour or so of riding, and then fail again when back in the garage.
However it seem to me that this adjustable screen thing is a bit of a gimmick. Keeps kids in the next car entertained when at traffic lights, but serves no use at all otherwise. Unless of course the rider is quite short and cannot see over the raised screen. (Can these riders get their toes to the ground?)
I think my plan will be to get behind the dash and remove both relays, telling any future purchaser that he can refit them if he wants an adjustable screen. For me it is an irritation I can do without. When I have the tank bag fitted it often drops down when I turn to full lock, doing a three point turn.
Next question if I may............ any hints on getting behind the dash?
Kind regards,
Rich
I promised myself a boxer for the past 35 yrs. Now at last a R1100RT 2001 known as "The Black Madonna, Gypsy Queen" .... "Adventure before Dementia"

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keiththeoutfitter1
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Re: Non Adjustable screen

Postby keiththeoutfitter1 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:45 pm

I'm afraid I can't help you with getting behind the dash as it's a few years since I had my 1100 but I'm sure someone will be along with some information.
Keith
R1200RT
K1100RS + EZS Rally Sidecar
Kawasaki Versys 650

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Non Adjustable screen

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:03 pm

R1100RT Windscreen - Operation & Testing:

Windscreen problems can be a corrosion problem on the relay sockets themselves, faulty relay/s, the Screen Limit Switches (LS) or associated connectors in the Screen circuit.

See the link below to a PDF Ladder Type Wiring Diagram by Doug Raymond for the R1100RT and download the R1100RT diagram.
Look at the bottom of Page 3 of 3 for the Screen circuit wiring:
http://www.mac-pac.org/tech/electrical-diagrams/

The 12v power to the windscreen motor is reversed by the UP/DOWN relays depending on whether the motor is
required to Raise or Lower the screen i.e. the motor is reversible - you can connect 12v to it and it will turn one way,
reverse the voltage and it will turn the other way.

Look at Doug's Wiring Diagram for the Screen circuit on Page 3 - you will note that the that there are two Changeover contacts marked 'UP LS' and 'Down LS'.

The LS are 'Limit Switches' with changeover contacts.
These cut the power to the Raise/Lower Relay coils when the screen reaches its Raise or Lower limit.
Both LS sit in the Normally Closed (NC) position until the Screen reaches the appropriate Limit Switch (LS) which then causes the Normally Closed contact to open and break the circuit.



HOW IT WORKS:

There are TWO power circuits involved in the Screen operation.
The two Screen Lower/Raise Relays are supplied with +12v via the Load Relief Relay (which operates at Ignition 'On') and Fuse #4 [F4 7.5 Amp] and the Lower/Raise Switch on the LH Handlebar Switchset.
The Screen Motor is suppled with +12v via Fuse #3 (F3 15 Amp) which is permanently live.

Follow this through on the diagram - note that there are two circuits in play here, the Raise/Lower Relay circuits with their Limit Switches and the Motor circuit controlled by which Raise/Lower relay is operated.

RELAY Operation - RAISING the Screen:
1. If the Screen is Lowered, the Up/Down Button operates the RAISE Relay coil by applying +12v from Fuse #4 (Green/Brown wire), via the Up/Down Button terminal #3 (Grey/Yellow wire) and the Raise Relay socket pin #3.

2. The Raise Relay coil then operates to earth via Raise Relay socket pin #5, the UP LS Normally Closed contact, connector pin #5, Raise/Lower Relay sockets connector pins #4 & #9, OE connector pin #2 to earth.

MOTOR Operation - RAISING the Screen:
3. When the Raise Relay operates, its Changeover (C/O) contact then connects +12v from Fuse #3 (Red/White wire) to the Raise Relay socket pin #2, to the Raise Relay socket pin #1 to the top side of the Motor.

4. The Motor operates which raises the screen until part of the mechanism touches the UP LS where it CHANGES the UP LS Normally Closed (NC) contact to the Normally Open (NO) position.
This BREAKS the circuit for the Motor causing it to stop which stops the Screen from Raising any further even if the Up/Down Button is kept pressed in the Up position.

5. Note that the bottom side of the Motor is connected to earth via the LOWER Relay socket pin#6, the Normally Closed Lower Relay contact, the Lower Relay socket pin #9, the Brown wire to earth on the OE Connector pin #2.


RELAY Operation - LOWERING the Screen:
6. If the Screen is Raised, the Up/Down Button operates the LOWER Relay coil by applying +12v from Fuse #4 (Green/Brown wire), via the Up/Down Button terminal #1 (Blue/Yellow wire) and the Lower Relay socket pin #10.

7. The Lower Relay coil then operates to earth via Lower Relay socket pin #8, the DOWN LS Normally Closed contact, connector pin #5, Raise/Lower Relay sockets connector pins #4 & #9, OE connector pin #2 to earth.

MOTOR Operation - LOWERING the Screen:
3. When the Lower Relay operates, its Changeover (C/O) contact then connects +12v from Fuse #3 (Red/White wire) to the Lower Relay socket pin #7, to the Lower Relay socket pin #6 to the Bottom side of the Motor.

4. The Motor operates which lowers the screen until part of the mechanism touches the DN LS where it CHANGES the DN LS Normally Closed (NC) contact to the Normally Open (NO) position.
This BREAKS the circuit for the Motor causing it to stop which stops the Screen from Lowering any further even if the Up/Down Button is kept pressed in the Down position.

5. Note that the Top side of the Motor is connected to earth via the RAISE Relay socket pin #1, the Normally Closed Raise Relay contact, the Raise Relay socket pin #4, the Brown wire to earth on the OE Connector pin #2.


TESTING

I would suggest that testing is done from the Raise/Lower Relay sockets if you can access and identify the socket pin numbers (#).
You therefore need to get access to the Raise/Lower relays by removing the black inner dash trim panel after removing the 12 screws around its outer edge AND the two screws at the middle outer near top of the Nose Cone under the screen.
Disconnect the wires going to the switches and the Power Socket after noting what goes where. Take off the trim panel.
The Raise/Lower Relays should be removed for the testing which will allow you to Raise/Lower the Screen from the relay sockets.
The Raise/Lower Relay SOCKET positions (NOT the relays!) should be marked with a Marker Pen to make it easier to identify which socket is which i.e. UP/DOWN.
The wire colours can be used to identify the sockets and the pins.
Some spare fuses for Fuses #3 and #4 are advisable!

Screen fully DOWN - to RAISE Screen

1. Jumper Raise Relay socket pin #2 (Fuse #3, +12v, Red/White wire) to pin #3.
2. The Raise Relay coil should operate and the Screen should RAISE. You should be able to 'feel/hear' the relay operate.
3. Use a Test Lamp (or a Voltmeter) and probe for +12v on Raise Relay socket pin #3 WHILE the Screen UP Button is operated - +12v should be present.

Screen fully UP - to LOWER Screen

1. Jumper Lower Relay socket pin #7 (Fuse #3, +12v, Red/White wire) to pin #10.
2. The Lower Relay coil should operate and the Screen should Lower. You should be able to 'feel/hear' the relay operate.
3. Use a Test Lamp (or a Voltmeter) and probe for +12v on Lower Relay socket pin #10 WHILE the Screen DOWN Button is operated - +12v should be present.


PHOTO - Screen Relays
Click to Enlarge/Save As
R1100RT Screen Relays.jpg
Ref: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25338

From the above Ref, Mike found that his screen problem was a loose white 'Screen Connector'.
Unfortunately this appears to require removal of the Nose Cone to access but any problems with this should be detectable by the testing on the Relay SOCKETS given earlier:
by Mickthecat » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:54 pm
Ok the screen is now working.

However I think I've been lucky in finding the problem. A friend came round with his voltmeter & we tested the lower & raise connections in the relay base. Nothing from the lower pin & 12v reading from the raise pin.
I took the switch cover off to test the grey yellow wire that I assumed would be there but couldn't see it. Anyhow I traced the cable back from the switch to see where it went & it led to a white block connector on the opposite side to the lower / raise relays. As I moved the cable it just came apart in my hand !. Snapped the 2 parts back together & all is now fine.
Thank you for all your help
Mike
PS: I'm wondering if this connector can be accessed by going in forwards from the LH stanchion?

PHOTO - Screen Connector
Click to Enlarge/Save As
R1100RT Screen Connector_1.jpg




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Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!


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