R1200RT Gearbox fault

[racingt]

Hi Guys
had the RT1200 one month now, and it's a 2008, 11,000 mile model.
Last week I experienced difficulty changing down form 4th and 3rd gear. Last night it stuck in third gear for 3 or 4 miles, but then cleared and changed gear perfectly.
The gear change was very slick but starts to feel sticky before it gets stuck in gear.
Overall, I've had six/ten poor changes in the last 80 miles.
Has anyone experienced it, and if so, what is the solution?
Are we talking new selector forks or is it something with the gear change mechanism?
All help appreciated
Thanks

Phil

[bmwchaz]

As a first off, I'd check that the linkage is ok - are all the bolts etc tight and lined up? I'd check mine but it's up the road and I've got work to do

Mines an '08 model with 8,500 on the clock and it shifts as sweetly as any Jap inline 4!

Chaz

[Bandytales]

Hi Guys
had the RT1200 one month now, and it's a 2008, 11,000 mile model.
Last week I experienced difficulty changing down form 4th and 3rd gear. Last night it stuck in third gear for 3 or 4 miles, but then cleared and changed gear perfectly.
The gear change was very slick but starts to feel sticky before it gets stuck in gear.
Overall, I've had six/ten poor changes in the last 80 miles.
Has anyone experienced it, and if so, what is the solution?
Are we talking new selector forks or is it something with the gear change mechanism?
All help appreciated
Thanks

Phil

Where the lever attaches to the spline of the gearbox, this is secured tight by a pinch bolt. If this is loose, too much slop can cause problematic gearchanges.
Check this first.

Andy

[Vince]

Addition to the advice above, a bit lube on the linkage ball joints and where the shaft runs through from lever to lower linkage. Mine always shifts better with these lubed and I try to spray a bit of ACF-50 on them after every wash.

If none of the above works, could be a delaer warranty jobbie?
hth
\v/

[racingt]

Hi guys, thanks, checked all the above last night and all OK.
It's got 3 months left of a six month warranty and is now booked in for Wednesday.
Dealer thinks one of the many reasons could be the clutch, which seems to be making more noise at a standstill than it did.
I just think selector forks, but if they are generally reliable, then I don't see why.
Any more ideas???

[ilkleyal]

Hi guys, thanks, checked all the above last night and all OK.
It's got 3 months left of a six month warranty and is now booked in for Wednesday.
Dealer thinks one of the many reasons could be the clutch, which seems to be making more noise at a standstill than it did.
I just think selector forks, but if they are generally reliable, then I don't see why.
Any more ideas???

Can't see it having anything to do with the clutch.

A clutch is simply a way of disengaging the drive and cannot cause a gearbox to jam in one gear for 4 miles. Its possible to perform clutchless changes afterall so I am puzzled by that possible diagnosis.

Has it got any oil in it? worth checking this yourself before it goes in as if they forgot to fill it up it after draining it then it will be knackered and you should insist on a new one.

Good look

Al.

[racingt]

Al,
thats a very good point. Clutch works perfectly at standstill. Bike was sold and serviced by a Honda dealer, so perhaps they did make a mistake on the service, or maybe used the wrong grade of oil. How would I check apart from removing the drain screw, and what grade of oil should be used?
Cheers
Phil

[ilkleyal]

Al,
thats a very good point. Clutch works perfectly at standstill. Bike was sold and serviced by a Honda dealer, so perhaps they did make a mistake on the service, or maybe used the wrong grade of oil. How would I check apart from removing the drain screw, and what grade of oil should be used?
Cheers
Phil

Only way to tell is to remove the plug and see what comes out. If its the correct gear oil then you will be able to tell by the very distinctive smell of it. Im not sure of capacity as I ride an 1100rt which takes .8 litre at gearbox oil change and I expect yours will be about the same. Any good quality gear oil will be fine but for ref: for my 1100 they suggest hypoid gear oil sae 80 w 90 for year round use.
If they just used motorcycle engine oil designed for most motorcycles that share a gearbox/engine oil supply then serious damage could be caused.

I would drain it first and see what it is and see if there are any bits in it. Hypoid stinks, go get some from a bike shop or car spares store and have a whiff if you don't know what it is supposed to smell like.

Good look

Al.

[Bandytales]

....how would I check apart from removing the drain screw......Phil

If you just want to check the level, you remove the fill screw and put oil in, if it immediately pours back out of the fill hole it's full. If you do put oil in, make a note of how much went in.


However, I would encourage you to ensure the dealer sorts this out sooner rather than later so that there is no quibling over warranty issues later on.

Andy

[racingt]

Thanks Al & Andy.
Since it's booked into the dealers, I don't want to drain the oil, but I will remove the drain plug, and probably lean the bike over to see if any comes out.
That way, I won't add oil to a gearbox that is low. If I get some out, I'll check the smell against some old hypoid in the garage.
I'm worried in case the oil is low, and gets corrected and leads to a gearbox that functions till the end of the warranty then expires.
It's only done 800 miles since the service, and only had the problem in the last 80 miles, do you think it will be permanently damaged?
Not planning to ride it any further than to take it to the dealers. Box problems sound expensive to me!
Al, I just sold an 1100, perhaps I shouldn't have. Damn.

Thanks
Phil

[Bandytales]

....It's only done 800 miles since the service, and only had the problem in the last 80 miles, do you think it will be permanently damaged?
Not planning to ride it any further than to take it to the dealers. Box problems sound expensive to me!


Thanks
Phil

It shouldn't be expensive for you. That is what the warranty is for. Just make sure that the dealer knows how you feel about it. Once the bike is returned to you, make sure you put a good few (hundred) miles on the bike and ensure some of it is aggressive and loaded miles too.

Andy

[racingt]

dear all,thanks for all the advice. My dealer (Honda) called the local BMW dealer, and got good advice, stripped and (hopefully) sorted the bike. After 230 miles, the gearchange has been perfect every time. Fingers crossed!!

[Vince]

What did they do to it?

[Bandytales]

What did they do to it?

??? +1

[racingt]

Stripped the gearchange shaft (sorry don't know the proper name) out, used emery paper to sand it down, lubed and reassembled.
The issue was that after revving the engine hard, the gear lever would not budge and the diagnosis was that it was binding on the oil seal, therefore reducing the diameter of the shaft increases the clearance, and prevents binding on the oil seal.
Whilst this might sound a little too obvious, it appears to have worked to date, although I'll be happier with a few more thousand miles on it before I can be completely happy.
And the gear change is as slick as it was before, probably a little better, and not far off Honda standards. Much better than the RT1100.
All in all, very happy with the service I received and confident that if I have further issues, they will be sorted.
Fingers crossed!!!

[STrider]

Yes...the shafts can get gunged up and the gearchange deteriorates. I give mine a clean every few months.

[Vince]

Ah, yes I always find a smooth well lubed shaft gives a better action.... Ahem, as I mentioned above


It has been known for the sleeve through the frame to bind on the shaft as well. I reckon the cleaning up of the shaft and the relubing is what fixed it for ya. I feel the binding on the oil seal reason might not be the actual reason, and I think they would have to split the gearbox to remove the shaft, although it's quite possible to remove the seal and clean up the part of the shaft you could get to I suppose.

However all is well now so that's a good thing.
\v

[ilkleyal]

Ah, yes I always find a smooth well lubed shaft gives a better action.... Ahem, as I mentioned above


I feel the binding on the oil seal reason might not be the actual reason

\v

No kidding biggest load of bullshit I ever heard

I can see the headlines now

"sprung loaded steel shaft gets hung up on tiny contact area oiled rubber seal shock"

At least its fixed, I would have checked that it had oil in it before it went in as its very easy for a dealer to come up with nonesense like this, but then, Im a sceptic and trust no mechanic, especially one at a main dealer.

Al.

[moorlander999]

and there says a man who dosent mince his words

[racingt]

Actually Ilkleyal, I reckon you are talking bollocks.
If the gearbox had no oil, surely it would have seized? Why would no oil lock a selector shaft solid, yet permit all the layshafts to continue to go round at huge numbers of rpm?
Sorry mate, you just sound like an internet expert with no practical experience....

[Geoff Thompson]

Actually Ilkleyal, I reckon you are talking bollocks.
If the gearbox had no oil, surely it would have seized? Why would no oil lock a selector shaft solid, yet permit all the layshafts to continue to go round at huge numbers of rpm?
Sorry mate, you just sound like an internet expert with no practical experience....

Before we all get carried away with calling each other names have a look at Al's posts on changing an R1100RT clutch and then stripping his gearbox to change the input seal. He has plenty of experience!

Now maybe the dealer has not explained what they have done very well but I agree with Al to suggest a gear lever shaft was sticking on an oil seal is ridiculous.

[moorlander999]

this is just like the forum of '' the other club'' --- home sweet home !!

[boxerman]

racingt - please feel free to air your views but please, no swearing and no personal insults....

I suspect your response may have been a little tongue in cheek but it doesn't come across that way - we're a friendly site here....

[moorlander999]

the key word to remember above all else is;-

FRIENDLY

[ilkleyal]

Hello,

Sorry you have taken that view.

Best of luck with it now it is fixed.

Al.