1100 vs 1150

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andrew_sf2

1100 vs 1150

Postby andrew_sf2 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:59 pm

Hi,

I have just joined the forum as I am looking for a clean RS oilhead but am uncertain as to which is better, the 1100 or 1150, and would appreciate input from the forum:

1. Do all 1150s have ABS and are all ABS systems linked? Are these ABS systems reliable?
2. Is the 6 speed box better than the 5 speed?
3. Do both models suffer from surging, and has the cause been indentified?
4. Are there any other reliability/maintenance issues I should focus on?

Any comments, thoughts or opinions welcomed!

Thanks in anticipation.

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ilkleyal
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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby ilkleyal » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:02 am

[quote="andrew_sf2"]Hi,

I have just joined the forum as I am looking for a clean RS oilhead but am uncertain as to which is better, the 1100 or 1150, and would appreciate input from the forum:

1. Do all 1150s have ABS and are all ABS systems linked? Are these ABS systems reliable?
2. Is the 6 speed box better than the 5 speed?
3. Do both models suffer from surging, and has the cause been indentified?
4. Are there any other reliability/maintenance issues I should focus on?

The following relates to my RT experience but as you are aware, they are pretty much the same thing under the skin.

1, Don't know

2, I expect that the 6 speed is better than the 5 if you cruise at speed. Its clutch is certainly better although technically not part of the gearbox of course. I have no direct experience of the 6 speed so can't compare the two. I can however confirm the 5 speed is somewhat clunky particularly from 1st to 2nd and needs a reliable and positive change but I am quite sure they all do that sir!

3, The legendary "surging" I think the 1150 has twin spark which some say eliminates "surging" (how it does this, if it does, I have no idea) I have the 1100 with properly balanced throttle bodies and I can't imagine what the fuss is all about. I have never experienced any "surging" and honestly think the whole thing is wildly exaggerated [-(

4, I would buy the 1150 if I were you for the simple reason that the clutch is much bigger, the one in the 1100 is the same as the 850 and on my 22000 mile 1100 it is slipping already which makes for a massive job one weekend this winter. I am fortunate in that I have the tools and know-how to do the job myself but, should I need to trust this to a dealer I would be looking at well over a grand to put a new clutch in there and then you wonder if all the work was done properly. I understand the ABS unit on the 1150 is very expensive (£1000 to £1500) I hear and they have been known to fail.

Opinions are like bum-holes of course and we all have them, but in summary, If I were spending your cash I would buy an 1150

Whatever you buy, get a low miles well-maintained (not necessarily main dealer) example of either and I am sure you will be delighted with the machine.

Happy hunting

AL.

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Stitch » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:32 pm

On the other hand.......

I bought an another 1100 when the time came to change my '94 because I don't like the servo, I object to linked brakes which operate the front brake with the rear brake pedal (you'll notice BMW don't do this anymore) and, though they're minor points, I don't like white indicator lenses & three-spoke wheels are easier to clean :-"

The brakes on the 1100 are perfectly adequate, one of the faults with the servo system is that you need to have engine running for them to work, so if you're pushing the bike, you need to be aware that you have nowhere near full braking force available - okay if you're aware, but there are tales of disaster caused by this.

Yer pays yer money.........
Cheers, Stitch.
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store

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby store » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:19 pm

andrew_sf2 wrote:Hi,

I have just joined the forum as I am looking for a clean RS oilhead but am uncertain as to which is better, the 1100 or 1150, and would appreciate input from the forum:

1. Do all 1150s have ABS and are all ABS systems linked? Are these ABS systems reliable?
2. Is the 6 speed box better than the 5 speed?
3. Do both models suffer from surging, and has the cause been indentified?
4. Are there any other reliability/maintenance issues I should focus on?

Any comments, thoughts or opinions welcomed!

Thanks in anticipation.


1) No not all 1150 bike have ABS..good job too as ABS = complication = lots of money if it goes wrong, which happens more than it does on a car. They're about as reliable as each other ie 1100/1150 but 1150's need more special equipment to reset. They're not bad for a bike but age and lack of servicing will get to them.
2) 6 speed is far better than the 5 speed. There are three types of ratio too, endruo, sport and overdrive that are interchangable. The only real problem is input spline wear , so avoild thrashed and higher milage.
5 speed boxes will simply go wrong at some point.
3) Setting the TPS properly can do great thing for surging. They all have the same TPS. Keeping the big brass balance screws clean is quite good too.
4) Hydraulic clutch on 6 speeds can jam up esp if not serviced, but it can all be sorted.
5) Twin plugger 1150's are more complicated, they changed the central plug stick coil. Try to get one with grey rubber tops to them. The early black top stick coils are more prone to 'tracking' giving poor running.

Great bikes to ride, I've had 1100s before but I'd be happier now with a single spark 1150 no ABS for lack of complication. RT and GS models I'd look close at the rear suspension, which ever engine size.

Mike-K75

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Mike-K75 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:27 am

Stitch wrote: one of the faults with the servo system is that you need to have engine running for them to work,


No you don't.

You only need to have the ignition switched-on for the servo assist (it's electric not vacuum).



1. Do all 1150s have ABS and are all ABS systems linked? Are these ABS systems reliable?

Not all 1150's have servo, ABS and therefore, linked brakes. You won't find linked brakes unless it has ABS. You won't find ABS without servo assist on 1150's (it's not something to worry about. It can go wrong and does but it's rarer than internet chatter would have you believe and the fix is to simply remove it. Later Servo-ABS is much less abrupt in operation than the pre-circa 2002/3 models).

2. Is the 6 speed box better than the 5 speed?

In terms of longevity over the very early 5-speed, the 6-speed is better but as to use, there's not much in it (unless it has been fitted with an 1150 Adventure "low first gear" box).

3. Do both models suffer from surging, and has the cause been indentified?

Yes. The cause is usually poor valve adjustment. Twin-Spark models suffer less but will surge if the valve adjustment is ignored or not done properly.

John King

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby John King » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:06 pm

When I had my R1100RT, it was a pig at first even with a very low mileage. I trusted it to a proven skilled BMW mechanic to balance the injectors, cables and valve clearances. The surging never ever re-appeared between 8000K and 37000K after which I sold it. The clutch was ok but the gearbox was dreadful especially between 2nd and 3rd, more so coming down the gears espsially if you got the revs wrong.

55-60 mpg was the norm when touring and just beware all models use a little oil/lot of oil before they have done 25K miles

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Bandytales » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:44 pm

andrew_sf2 wrote:Hi,

I have just joined the forum as I am looking for a clean RS oilhead but am uncertain as to which is better, the 1100 or 1150, and would appreciate input from the forum:

1. Do all 1150s have ABS and are all ABS systems linked? Are these ABS systems reliable?
2. Is the 6 speed box better than the 5 speed?
3. Do both models suffer from surging, and has the cause been indentified?
4. Are there any other reliability/maintenance issues I should focus on?

Any comments, thoughts or opinions welcomed!

Thanks in anticipation.




Buy as new a model as you can possible afford
Buy as low a milage as you can possibly find.
Buy as good a condition as you can possibly find.
My recommendation is a twin spark 1150.
Anyhow a few observations from someone who used all three models.

1/. All 1150RT's have ABS, and yes it is reliable.
2/. Yes but 6th takes a little getting used to (it should really be considered as overdrive).
3/. NO. Twin spark 1150's do not surge.
4/. see description below.

Andy
The 1150 has a sweeter gearbox - less clunky between gearchanges (but still clunky by Jap standards).
Once in gear, the transmission is smoother too due to the cut of the gears.
The Gearbox itself is less prone to failure than early 1100 (M94 series) gearboxes.
Clutch is better, 6th gear is a little high, but it is just a new thing to learn - resist using 6th until the bike is really ready for it (more of an overdrive) .
The Lights - although not brilliant (pun) are head and shoulders better than the 1100.
The seat is on the 1150 comes in the more comfortable 'comfort' version. This used to be an optional extra on the 1100. If you find the 1150 seat too wide, you can always fit a narrower 1100 saddle.
The brakes are a matter of opinion. Some folk prefer the 1150 others the 1100. I like the 1150's (although a little unnecessarily complex).
The handlebar controls look and feel more integrated on the 1150.
Front wheel removal is just a tiny bit more straightforward on the 1150 due to the different front mudgaurd.
The later 1150 (highly recommended) has twin spark /per cylinder. THIS IS NOT A GIMMIC. it pretty much eliminates the dreaded surging (which you WILL get on the 1100 and may get on the early 1150 single spark).
The fuel consumption is a TINY bit better on the twin spark 1150.
The engine is more flexible with the twin spark.
The twin spark 1150 has twin horns (V good).
All models standard top boxes are rubbish - they may look integrated, but hold nothing! Don't look for this original top box as a bonus. A better option is a (say) GIVI unit.
Tyre choice is better on the 1150, but that isn't really a big deal.
Maintenance is a little easier on the 1150. Things like battery removal is improved.
Ignition sensor (HALL sensor) and wiring improved on the 1150.

When looking try as many different bikes as possible. No 2 are the same.

Be aware that the gearbox input shaft is a known weakness (particularly on the 1100's) and this is a very expensive repair. If the bike you intend to buy has had this repair done, DON'T BUY THE BIKE. The chances are that the gearbox/engine alignment is minutely out and the failure may well re occur.
Bandytales - R1150RT twin spark(current), R1150RT single spark,Yamaha TDM 850, Honda NTV 650, Honda XL500, Honda CX650 (favourite all time bike), Honda XR200, Honda CX500 (several - loved the maggots), Honda 400/4, Honda CB200, BSA Bantam

aero

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby aero » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:18 pm

The surging issue is caused by out of balance throttle bodies. Very simple to adjust yourself. My 1150 surged at around 30MPH, adjusting the valves made no difference, but using a normal vacuum gauge and a few minutes tinkering had the problem solved.

I don't like the servo brakes. Mine are non intergal, IE the rear brake doesn't operate the front brake. BUT with a heavily laden bike in traffic or with pillion and it can be a real handful if you tweek the brakes slightly to hard as they come on too much at low speed, I've nearly dropped it a couple of times filtering through traffic in London because of the over powerful braking. A very expensive item to go wrong also. But you'll scare the crap out of sports bike riders if you have it as you can leave the braking late! :shock:

Despite all the fun super powerful ABS brakes give - If I could dump the servo and keep the ABS I would without a second thought. If it does go wrong I will remove it and convert it to standard brakes, which I'm told is easy to do.

spot

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby spot » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:58 pm

Good man, The RS is a great bike, I have had 4 now and have never yielded to temptation from RT's and GS's. my current bike is an r 1150rs with the dreaded abs servo linked brakes and i love them. I dropped it a couple of times in the first few days as they do grab at walking pace but once i was used to it they are terific stoppers and have got me out of trouble more than once. Surging? never had it in 70,80 thousand miles on oilheads. My 1000 gearbox was beginning to go when i got rid and the 1150 box is much better. The 1100 was a tiny bit quicker on the top end and it had a bit more of that indefineable character about it. To be honest i had forgotten this, when i got the 1150 i thought i liked the 1100 more, now im not so sure. They are both great bikes. When the right bike comes along you will know and it dosent matter if its an 1100 or an 1150. Enjoy!

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby daveparry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:28 pm

The chances are that the gearbox/engine alignment is minutely out and the failure may well re occur.
-----------------------------------------
How can that happen then Bandytales, the engine and gearbox are bolted together ?
Dave Parry.

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Bandytales » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:01 pm

daveparry wrote:The chances are that the gearbox/engine alignment is minutely out and the failure may well re occur.
-----------------------------------------
How can that happen then Bandytales, the engine and gearbox are bolted together ?
Dave Parry.


Dave, the fact that they are bolted together is irrelivant, if the gearbox input shaft is out of line with the crankshaft of the engine ( located by dowels between engine and gearbox), then if any misalignment existed before the strip down, it will still be there after the rebuild.

Andy
Bandytales - R1150RT twin spark(current), R1150RT single spark,Yamaha TDM 850, Honda NTV 650, Honda XL500, Honda CX650 (favourite all time bike), Honda XR200, Honda CX500 (several - loved the maggots), Honda 400/4, Honda CB200, BSA Bantam

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby daveparry » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:42 pm

I see what you're saying Andy but how does the 'misalignment' occur? Presumably it isn't like that from new, and the dowels would prevent any mispositioning of the clutch housing to engine on re-assembly. I would think the most likely cause would be someone allowing the gearbox to 'hang' on the shaft during asembly possibly bending the shaft, unlikely I would think,
regards,
Dave.

delboy

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby delboy » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:07 pm

There was a huge discussion on this problem on the Sporttouring forum and one guy i believe checked all the measurements minutly.His conclusion was a batch of engines/gearboxes had the alignment dowels slightly out.Built from new this way.People who had this problem couldnt resolve it as to fit a new gearbox led to the same failure a few thousand miles on.I think this was for year 2004 bikes(1150`s) Do a search on here.
http://bmwsporttouring.com/

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Bandytales » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:13 am

daveparry wrote:I see what you're saying Andy but how does the 'misalignment' occur? Presumably it isn't like that from new, and the dowels would prevent any mispositioning of the clutch housing to engine on re-assembly. I would think the most likely cause would be someone allowing the gearbox to 'hang' on the shaft during asembly possibly bending the shaft, unlikely I would think,
regards,
Dave.


This apparent misalignment occured from manufacture. Some engineers who have had this problem,have manufactured eccentric dowels to compensate for their mis-alighnment.
BMW,it would appear, reject that misalignment ever happens.
It has been a random problem effecting mainly the 1100's but 1150 were (are) not exempt.
So, if you do have an input shaft go, then you are one of the unfortunate ones. But, you would be prudent to get a very good engineering house confirm you DO NOT have an alignment issue.
Andy
Bandytales - R1150RT twin spark(current), R1150RT single spark,Yamaha TDM 850, Honda NTV 650, Honda XL500, Honda CX650 (favourite all time bike), Honda XR200, Honda CX500 (several - loved the maggots), Honda 400/4, Honda CB200, BSA Bantam

andrew_sf2

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby andrew_sf2 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:35 pm

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your detailed replies. Taking your comments on board my current thoughts are -

1) R1150RS, without ABS as I don't want servo-assisted, linked brakes
2) unlikely my budget would get a twin spark, hence go with single spark
3) any "surging " can be reduced significantly/eliminated by careful setting of valve clearances & balancing throttles.
4) possible engine/gearbox misalignment, resulting in excessive spline wear/failure, is most prevalent in 2004 (not sure if I've got this one right?)

Then the obvious ones - low mileage, service history, low number of owners.

Do you know of any for sale which tick these boxes??

Thanks again for your input.

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Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby Bandytales » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:40 pm

andrew_sf2 wrote:Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your detailed replies. Taking your comments on board my current thoughts are -

1) R1150RS, without ABS as I don't want servo-assisted, linked brakes
2) unlikely my budget would get a twin spark, hence go with single spark
3) any "surging " can be reduced significantly/eliminated by careful setting of valve clearances & balancing throttles.
4) possible engine/gearbox misalignment, resulting in excessive spline wear/failure, is most prevalent in 2004 (not sure if I've got this one right?)

Then the obvious ones - low mileage, service history, low number of owners.

Do you know of any for sale which tick these boxes??

Thanks again for your input.



1/. Your choice of R1150RS is good - don't be put off by ABS - this is invaluable in marginal conditions - if the right one came up with it, go for it.
2/. Twin sparkers have been around some time now, so the difference between an 1150 single spark vs twin spark should not be too great. (remember that extra flexibility we talked of).
3/. Correct.
4/. Wrong. This has shown itself mostly on earlier bikes. Just make sure you ask questions about whether the clutch has been changed, why...no, really, why?
I would be reticent to by a bike if the gearbox has been off.

Your have plenty of bikes out there, enjoy your search, and remember all the BMW forums. There are few marques that have such a loyal, passionate and long serving folk riding and spannering their bikes.

Andy
Bandytales - R1150RT twin spark(current), R1150RT single spark,Yamaha TDM 850, Honda NTV 650, Honda XL500, Honda CX650 (favourite all time bike), Honda XR200, Honda CX500 (several - loved the maggots), Honda 400/4, Honda CB200, BSA Bantam

steptoe

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby steptoe » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:40 pm

delboy wrote:There was a huge discussion on this problem on the Sporttouring forum and one guy i believe checked all the measurements minutly.His conclusion was a batch of engines/gearboxes had the alignment dowels slightly out.Built from new this way.People who had this problem couldnt resolve it as to fit a new gearbox led to the same failure a few thousand miles on.I think this was for year 2004 bikes(1150`s) Do a search on here.
http://bmwsporttouring.com/


BMW have had the spline problem since the the airheads and it continued with the K series , it's not a new problem, just the internet has brought it to more peoples attention.

See if you can ride both models, they are very different in their subtle ways and no amount of posts will tell you which you will prefer.

steptoe

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby steptoe » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:46 pm

store wrote:[
5) Twin plugger 1150's are more complicated, they changed the central plug stick coil. Try to get one with grey rubber tops to them. The early black top stick coils are more prone to 'tracking' giving poor running.

.



BMW have gone back to black rubber tops as previously fitted. I doubt they're same, but you can no longer tell the diffeence between old and new style :grin:

alleywatson

Re: 1100 vs 1150

Postby alleywatson » Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:12 am

Buy an FJR, lol. sorry guys bad joke. Currently running an R reg R1100RT and haven't had to do too much in the time I've had it, I had to do the clutch 8 months ago at 70,000 and cost 450 quid, even though I'd bought the clutch and plates etc, I've just had another starter put on at 80 quid and changed the fuel filter myself which had also done 74,000 ish and said 1998 on it, The ABS stops working if the battery is going and mine eats back brake pads, I do ride hard though, and 2 up often, I've put a sedcam screen on which is great and made my own bracket for a Garmin Nuvo thing, love the heated grips this time of year and the luggage is robust with the addition of a Give top box. Never changed bevelbox oil but did have to change the bearings in there, I've not really had too many problems with speed, obviously It's no Honda Blackbird but does give quite a punch from the lights and filtering. I once ran over a plank of 4*2 and lived. I've heard the 1150 has a hydraulic clutch and different front light, I get about 80 miles to a tenner knocking around only ten more than my dad's Blackbird so I don't think it's too bad for a workhorse. Just changing the hall ignition sensors at the moment luckily I can do it myself. Good luck


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