More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

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martinwR65
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More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Here's a couple of pics of my final drive splines. There's some appreciable wear at the ends...hard to judge how far that goes down the spline.
As an engineer, I'd reject that, and there is more slop in the transmission than I'd expect, as reported in my other thread.
Are they goosed?
The wheel splines look ok.

Oh, and one more thing: My wheel bearings feel quite rough.....I'm reading that's a specialist job? ](*,)

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:31 pm

Ok, well I have the wheel bearings on show now, and indeed they are goosed. This is a bike that just keeps on giving....everything I look at is trashed. :( I dare say I should take the front wheel out and check that too, and the head bearings.

Assuming I keep this wheel, it's 'cosmetically challenged', so I was going to get it powder coated before having a new tyre fitted.
Should I do the bearings before or after powder coating?

Or as the wheel needs powder coating, new bearings and the drum surface is marginal, would I be better just getting a good used wheel, greasing the bearings and fitting new seals?

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You can see on this second bearing the hardening has completely gone.

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby CharlieVictor » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:06 pm

Doesn't look good to me (at least not as good as my 80000 mile R100S).
What is the supposed mileage on your bike?
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:22 pm

Doesn't look good to me (at least not as good as my 80000 mile R100S).
What is the supposed mileage on your bike?
55,000 but if that's true my name is Jaap and I live in Rotterdam.
Given that just about everything on the bike has been knackered so far, I'd say it's either been clocked, or more likely a speedo cable snapped and wasn't replaced....for 20 years.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:16 am

Hmmm, 67 views and only 1 opinion?
I thought BM riders were meant to be opinionated? lol :wink: :lol:

Of course it could be 1 person 67 times......
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby andyb » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:10 pm

Some spline wear has got to be acceptable, but of course it can only get worse...but I would think those splines are a long way from failure. Maybe grease up, ride, and sort out another day?
I would worry more about the wheel bearings.
The trouble with buying a secondhand wheel is that it may not be any better than what you already have. Lets face it, all these bikes are getting a bit old now. So refurbishing your wheel (if the drum wear is acceptable) is probably best.
I would fit bearings last as the shot blasting process may wreck them.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby windmill john » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:49 pm

As Andy says, those splines look pretty good to me, just make sure you cover them in Moly.
Do sort out your brearings out and I bet your drum is okay.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby SteveD » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:47 pm

The splines aren't really "good" but they'll last for a while yet I expect. 50% worn ...In the meantime, if you plan on keeping the bike, keep your eyes open for a replacement.
These top ones are like yours..
Image

When the splines are getting towards pointy, then you'll need to take it easy with sudden throttle response and sort the replacement asap.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby andyb » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:50 pm

And even those in your photo had not (quite) failed Steve!
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby SteveD » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Worse...
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Cheers, Steve.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby SteveD » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:55 pm

And even those in your photo had not (quite) failed Steve!
AndyB
Not mine but they'd have some life still. How long would depend on care and usage, but I'd be guessing easily more than 20K km still.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Thanks for the input! :smile:

Yes, wheel bearings underway and splines will do, with lots of moly till......some point in the future.


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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby PhilO » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:13 pm

If you get the drive splines and crown wheel out and protect the machined areas and bearings it is possible to mig weld slivers of steel cut from a narrow strip of sheet. They just need tacking at each end. It's a hell of a fiddly job but it works and takes out loads of back-lash. It would probably work just using heavy grease to hold the slivers in place, after all loads of machinery is secured with things called 'gibbs' I did it to a bike years ago when I was keen to save every penny. It even takes up the wear in the wheel too if you make the slivers wide enough.
Last edited by PhilO on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby boxerman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:22 pm

crownwheel.JPG
This is how bad they need to be before they fail.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:37 pm

My splines are positively juvenile compared with some of these! :grin:
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby Rong » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:05 am

Can't understand why you would consider changing the wheel if it's the final drive splines that are worn?

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:36 am

Can't understand why you would consider changing the wheel if it's the final drive splines that are worn?
Or as the wheel needs powder coating, new bearings and the drum surface is marginal, would I be better just getting a good used wheel, greasing the bearings and fitting new seals?
See my 2nd post. :wink:

Of course, realistically the chances of finding a good used wheel that needs no work are slim to none, so I've abandoned that idea. The wheel is in for powder coating, new bearings, seals, sleeves, tyre and tube on order, and the drum will have to manage.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby andyb » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:27 pm

PholO...you seem to be advocating the use of sawdust in the oil!
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby PhilO » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:29 pm

Only if selling to someone you don't like.
To the best of my knowledge my bodge is still going strong.
It was a well engineered solution.
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby Rong » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:48 pm

Seen second post. Agree reverb of own wheel is probably better bet.

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:18 am

Seen second post. Agree reverb of own wheel is probably better bet.
I've got the wheel back from the powder coater now; looks fantastic!

Now I just need to fit the new bearings. I'm planning to heat the wheel and freeze the bearing outer race. I have a driver of the correct size, but I'm hoping it won't require too much force.

Has anyone done this who could offer some advice/warnings? :smile:
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:17 pm

See if this Snowbum Article #54-4 helps:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section4.htm

There's a specific bit on the R65 at the very end of the article.

You might want to have a read at the other Section #54 sub-section articles as well concerning wheels:

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/technical ... s-list.htm
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby martinwR65 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:09 pm

Thanks for that.

Bearings are now in. Heated the wheel up to about 120c with a heat gun, and put the outer races in the freezer, but they still needed a few good belts with my driver to get them in. Wheel is now having tyre fitted.
I did a rough and ready check on preload, as per Duane's page, and it seemed good. The freeplay disappeared at about 20ftlbs, so tightening to 30 should provide sufficient preload. The main message I took from reading his article is not to get too hung up on it. I sincerely doubt that these bearings will start spinning in the hub!
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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby barryh » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:24 pm

I did a rough and ready check on preload, as per Duane's page, and it seemed good. The freeplay disappeared at about 20ftlbs, so tightening to 30 should provide sufficient preload. The main message I took from reading his article is not to get too hung up on it.
Amen to that.

Your pre-load sounds more than good enough.

I used Duanes method 10 years ago and have had no problems. Frankly what ever method is used, the real issue is the 2 thou increment between factory spacers is simply too big to set preload to a precise specification. It's pure luck if you land spot on without having to make your own shims or lap the wedding ring. The other reason for not getting too hung up about it is, as Duane points out, the factory didn't do a great job. One of mine was miles off with free play dissapearing at less than 5 ftbs, You couldn't do worse than that.

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Re: More! R65 Final Drive Splines Ok?

Postby boxerman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:32 pm

The important thing is that it must be free to revolve with no sideways movement. Get it wrong and you'll quickly have problems.
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