Iridium spark plug problems?

Post your F Series Technical Q&A's here

Moderator: Moderators

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:30 pm

Hi guys.
Bought my 2003 F650GS 5 years ago and changed the plug to an expensive iridium one a year ago.
It did seem to run better but I think maybe the petrol consumption increased, and it seems not to run as smooth.
It's lumpy at times, especially when starting off, tends to miss out when changing gear, and generally feels as though it's misfiring when riding at steady speeds, no matter what revs I'm at.
Should I keep this plug or put a cheaper normal one in? And if so which one is best for this bike?

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Club Member 11
Posts: 6927
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:46 pm

Hi Dogmai,

Use the same type of spark plug specified in the Haynes or Clymer servicing manual for your bike.
The plug you are using may not be of the correct heat range.
If you don't have one of these manuals then it is best to obtain one if you intend to service the bike yourself so that the job is done correctly and fasteners are tightened to the required torque.

You may be able to download a manual online but be very aware that many websites supplying this service also host adware and malware which could be downloaded as well.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:17 am

No worries I use an Apple iMac to protect me from my internet activities. :) I do have a factory workshop manual for it that I got from motographix uk.
I believe it's the original BMW issue for their authorised dealers and repair stations. It even has pre-delivery checks and unpacking instructions.
NGK D8 EA is the plug they use. That will be the best one for my bike then I presume.

User avatar
milleplod
Forum User
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:26 pm
Country of Residence: England
Location: Bolsover, home of the Beast!

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby milleplod » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:10 am

Try dropping an eMail to NGK UK asking which plug to use for your bike. Obviously BMW recommend a particular type of plug, but built into that recommendation are marketing criteria, such as longevity of service - it doesn't necessarily follow that the BMW-recommended plug will give absolutely the best running. I mailed NGK regarding plugs for my 1200ST - within half an hour I got a phone call from a very helpful tech guy who gave me a detailed explanation as to why my bike would run better on DCPR8EIX plugs than DCPR8EKC ones, which BMW recommend. On his advice, I used the EIXs - they won't last as long as the EKCs (15k miles instead of 30k)....but the bike definitely runs better and ticks over much more smoothly.

And just a thought.....you did put the plug cap back on properly, didn't you?!

Pete
Last edited by milleplod on Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'.

User avatar
Jaythro
Forum User
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am
Country of Residence: Norn Iron
Location: Islandmagee, County Antrim, North East Ireland

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Jaythro » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:16 am

Sparkplugs just spark End of story

Where the spark happens in the combustion chamber is "sometimes" changeable

With the R1100RS I experimented and found a slightly better performance and MPG from a different plug from standard I used 4 plus a standard plug types in a week of "testing" and frequently use 2 numbers in servicing customers bikes (With their knowledge and agreement of course)

The Only downfall I have found is that its better to change them at 6000 rather than 12000 (they are very tired at 12000, but then again they are a 3rd of the price of the specified plug number its still a win :-D

You NEED to Diagnose the fault! You can't just grasp at straws with a "Oh my Spark plug is the problem!"

What are the rest of the symptoms ? When do they occur i.e. Weather conditions? Road Surfaces? After fueling Just as your motorcycle needs refuelling ??

Iridium plugs are very good, they provide an amazingly intense spark and they have great wear resistance to spark erosion unless they have been fitted for 12000 miles or more, they should be fine.
Last edited by Jaythro on Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:27 am

NGK DR8EIX is the one I have in now which seems to be causing the problems. More expensive and apparently burns more fuel, as well as causing the uneven running.
It does boost performance but that is outweighed by the negative aspects I have noticed.

User avatar
Jaythro
Forum User
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am
Country of Residence: Norn Iron
Location: Islandmagee, County Antrim, North East Ireland

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Jaythro » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:35 am

As I said above You NEED to Diagnose the fault! You can't just grasp at straws with a "Oh my Spark plug is the problem!" Did the changes occur just after you fitted the sparkplug? Could it be that the bikes perfomance is better and you are using it more than usual

Many different factors methinks!
NGK DR8EIX is the one I have in now which seems to be causing the problems.

More expensive and apparently burns more fuel, as well as causing the uneven running.
It does boost performance but that is outweighed by the negative aspects I have noticed.
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:56 am

Nothing changed in my usage or driving. But when I changed it I noticed both more power and the 'gaps', and uneven running.
My bike has the metal covered plug cap. I presume this is the standard one for it, but could there now be a mismatch in resistance?
Would putting a more common plastic cap on solve this?

User avatar
george baker
Club Member 11
Posts: 5747
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:51 am
Country of Residence: uk
Location: Manchester,UK

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby george baker » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:06 pm

Hi
could you go back to the "old" plug for a week or so to see if the bike goes back to the way you remember?

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:06 pm

I'd have to get a new one. U sed it for another job and it's knackered now.

macplaxton
Club Member 12
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:11 pm
Country of Residence: Ireland
Location: Co. Kildare

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby macplaxton » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:43 am

NGK D8 EA is the plug they use.
Try dropping an eMail to NGK UK asking which plug to use for your bike.
NGK DR8EIX is the one I have in now
http://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/

The NGK catalogue is at odds with the BMW books. NGK specify the D8EA for 94-99 and the DR8EB from 00- onwards, but they offer as an alternative iridium plug DR8EIX for all 650s from 94 onwards. The BMW parts list shows a cross over around 2003, which is when the ignition system changed. The first type uses a non-resistor plug and the second uses a resistor type plug.

Single Plug / Single Spark:
Image

Single Plug / Twin Spark:
Image

The 1st system has a resistive cap with a non-resistive plug (no R in code). The 2nd system has the coil on plug and a resistive plug. Having both the a resistor cap and a resistor plug isn't a good thing.

If your ignition system is like picture 1, then I'd go back to a D8EA non-resistor plug (or change the HT lead for one with a non-resistor cap).

http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/SparkPlugFAQ.htm has some info on plug and http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/PlugCapsnCoils.htm has some on caps.
'99 R1100RT Image

User avatar
milleplod
Forum User
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:26 pm
Country of Residence: England
Location: Bolsover, home of the Beast!

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby milleplod » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:16 am

Another thought - if you do have the version with a stick coil, your symptoms are classic signs of stick coil failure, which many people, me included, have experienced. I now carry spares!

Pete
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'.

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:46 am

The one I have now:
F650 Spark Plug Cap.JPG
Looks like it must be resistive.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

macplaxton
Club Member 12
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:11 pm
Country of Residence: Ireland
Location: Co. Kildare

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby macplaxton » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:40 am

Reading up on it, the original BMW part (Beru) is a 1kΩ cap and can be taken apart. Test with meter and see if resistance value is in the right range. Examine the plug cap condition carefully as corrosion or internal failure are possible issues.

Same(ish) engine:
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/show ... ug-Cap-Mod
'99 R1100RT Image

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:51 am

Sparkplugs just spark End of story

Where the spark happens in the combustion chamber is "sometimes" changeable

With the R1100RS I experimented and found a slightly better performance and MPG from a different plug from standard I used 4 plus a standard plug types in a week of "testing" and frequently use 2 numbers in servicing customers bikes (With their knowledge and agreement of course)

The Only downfall I have found is that its better to change them at 6000 rather than 12000 (they are very tired at 12000, but then again they are a 3rd of the price of the specified plug number its still a win :-D

You NEED to Diagnose the fault! You can't just grasp at straws with a "Oh my Spark plug is the problem!"

What are the rest of the symptoms ? When do they occur i.e. Weather conditions? Road Surfaces? After fueling Just as your motorcycle needs refuelling ??

Iridium plugs are very good, they provide an amazingly intense spark and they have great wear resistance to spark erosion unless they have been fitted fro 1200 miles or more they should be fine.
Well apart from you I have had some good advice and even those guys only helped, but I have found the problem.
!. Spark plugs don't just spark. There is a difference between unresistored and resistored plugs. And having a new iridium resistor plug with a resistor cap is not good.
2. How many plugs does your R1100RS take, and is there any similarity at all with my F650GS, apart from them both being BMW?
3. I got the new plug for 15 euro because it will last for 80,000 klm. Even more economical than your cheapie at 1/3 the price.
4. If I had the money you have to take my bike to a BMW dealer they would have charged me loads just to change a small part. I did pay 15 euro for the headlamp from them when I could have bought it from a local place for 5, and they didn't even diagnose the real problem. It was the connectors not the lamp, but they just changed the lamp and charged me for that plus labour. But hey, if you have money to throw away then go ahead.
4.1. I suspect that even if I had the money to pay for the electronic diagnosis they wouldn't have found the problem because even though the DR8 plug is recommended by NGK for my bike, the original BERU cap is also a resistor cap, so both don't match.
5. What a stupid system they have: a Denso coil, a Beru cap, and an NGK plug. Seriously???
6. What kind of stupid questions are you asking me? Weather conditions? irrelevant with plugs. Road surfaces? Are you £^%$^%^&%^ kidding me? After or before fuelling? Again WTF dude? Spark plugs are not susceptible to any of those things if they are properly fitted. Do you not know anything????
So I am working out the problem because it is unique, but as you seem to know it all already I won't bother telling you as you will obviously not take me seriously, or even think that I know anything you don't know.
But no worries, maybe I'll post it on here so others can help themselves rather than be chided by knowitalls for not 'diagnosing' the problem. Isn't the idea of these places to help people to do it themselves without having to go to a professional? And to find a solution and fix it themselves and feel good about it, rather than be chided by a snob?
I agree with that.

User avatar
milleplod
Forum User
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:26 pm
Country of Residence: England
Location: Bolsover, home of the Beast!

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby milleplod » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:25 am

Sparkplugs just spark End of story

Where the spark happens in the combustion chamber is "sometimes" changeable

With the R1100RS I experimented and found a slightly better performance and MPG from a different plug from standard I used 4 plus a standard plug types in a week of "testing" and frequently use 2 numbers in servicing customers bikes (With their knowledge and agreement of course)

The Only downfall I have found is that its better to change them at 6000 rather than 12000 (they are very tired at 12000, but then again they are a 3rd of the price of the specified plug number its still a win :-D

You NEED to Diagnose the fault! You can't just grasp at straws with a "Oh my Spark plug is the problem!"

What are the rest of the symptoms ? When do they occur i.e. Weather conditions? Road Surfaces? After fueling Just as your motorcycle needs refuelling ??

Iridium plugs are very good, they provide an amazingly intense spark and they have great wear resistance to spark erosion unless they have been fitted fro 1200 miles or more they should be fine.
Well apart from you I have had some good advice and even those guys only helped, but I have found the problem.
!. Spark plugs don't just spark. There is a difference between unresistored and resistored plugs. And having a new iridium resistor plug with a resistor cap is not good.
2. How many plugs does your R1100RS take, and is there any similarity at all with my F650GS, apart from them both being BMW?
3. I got the new plug for 15 euro because it will last for 80,000 klm. Even more economical than your cheapie at 1/3 the price.
4. If I had the money you have to take my bike to a BMW dealer they would have charged me loads just to change a small part. I did pay 15 euro for the headlamp from them when I could have bought it from a local place for 5, and they didn't even diagnose the real problem. It was the connectors not the lamp, but they just changed the lamp and charged me for that plus labour. But hey, if you have money to throw away then go ahead.
4.1. I suspect that even if I had the money to pay for the electronic diagnosis they wouldn't have found the problem because even though the DR8 plug is recommended by NGK for my bike, the original BERU cap is also a resistor cap, so both don't match.
5. What a stupid system they have: a Denso coil, a Beru cap, and an NGK plug. Seriously???
6. What kind of stupid questions are you asking me? Weather conditions? irrelevant with plugs. Road surfaces? Are you £^%$^%^&%^ kidding me? After or before fuelling? Again WTF dude? Spark plugs are not susceptible to any of those things if they are properly fitted. Do you not know anything????
So I am working out the problem because it is unique, but as you seem to know it all already I won't bother telling you as you will obviously not take me seriously, or even think that I know anything you don't know.
But no worries, maybe I'll post it on here so others can help themselves rather than be chided by knowitalls for not 'diagnosing' the problem. Isn't the idea of these places to help people to do it themselves without having to go to a professional? And to find a solution and fix it themselves and feel good about it, rather than be chided by a snob?
I agree with that.

Crikey, you been on the ouzo or something......am I missing something here?? :shock: Having a go at somebody who's tried to help is a bit much, to put it mildly. Shame on you.

Weather conditions and road surfaces are relevant because both can have an effect on what could have been an electrical issue - bad connection perhaps - somewhere on the bike. Bad/contaminated fuel happens sometimes. They were ideas thrown into the pot in an attempt to help.

Pete
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'.

User avatar
Jaythro
Forum User
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am
Country of Residence: Norn Iron
Location: Islandmagee, County Antrim, North East Ireland

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Jaythro » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:45 am

Dogmai get off your high horse! I have been working on these bikes for 10 plus years

My Advice was that of a Mechanic not a "snob"

All of my questions were relevant and very likely Phil ( a very skilled and long term mechanic) who set this forum up would have asked you very similar questions

Quite frankly I do not care what you "think", I have been meeting "Suddenly Qualified Experts" like you for years and Thankfully I "now" have the wisdom, to tell them to:- take their bike elsewhere for repair!

If you can even THINK to leave a sparkplug in there for 80,000km is an economic saving? You are even more of an "Expert" than I took you for!

Sure it probably best that you go and enjoy your Ouzo, afternoon naps and Sunshine Kiddo!

I will go take change a gearbox and clutch on a 1200GS and If I have time later. fabricate a functioning centre stand for a twin shock R80RT
Last edited by Jaythro on Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

User avatar
Jaythro
Forum User
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am
Country of Residence: Norn Iron
Location: Islandmagee, County Antrim, North East Ireland

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Jaythro » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:45 am

Milleplod Thank You Pete for putting across that I might actually know something

A friend of mine used this expletive on quite a few occasions over the years

"Jaysus, Maire and Joseph! Saints preserve us from Fools and Experts!" I think its quite apt don't you?
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

User avatar
Melian
Forum User
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:43 pm
Country of Residence: United Kingdom
Location: Andover, Hampshire, UK
Contact:

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Melian » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:46 am

Not quite the best way of winning friends and influencing people in my opinion. Ive found there is huge knowledge and experience amongst the member of this forum and it is all willingly shared. You might not like it or agree with it in which case you discuss it. Don't have a go. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the end of the help being offered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2009 BMW R1200RT

The point of life is not to arrive at the end with a perfectly preserved body but to slide in sideways, fully used up with a glass of champagne in hand shouting Wahooo, what a ride. :king:

User avatar
boxerman
Site Admin/Club Member
Posts: 6929
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:27 pm
Country of Residence: UK
Location: Leicester
Contact:

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby boxerman » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:08 am

Dogmai - this is a friendly, helpful and very knowledgeable forum. Ignore the advice offered by those experienced guys of you like but personal attacks like that will not be tolerated.
Phil Hawksley 'The Boxer Man' - aka 'Dangermouse'
Member #1 Much modified R80G/S - a REAL one
Why not join the BM Riders Club @ http://www.bmridersclub.com
http://www.boxerman.co.uk
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk
https://twitter.com/boxermanphil for my Badger videos

Dogmai
Forum User
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:27 pm
Country of Residence: Greece

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Dogmai » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:19 am

Sorry Boxerman but I can smell Jaythro's contempt and arrogance from here, and I don't accept that attitude from anyone.If you not his reply then you can clearly see his attitude which was more masked in his previous posts, but was still there. Hence my reply to him. You get what you give.

User avatar
boxerman
Site Admin/Club Member
Posts: 6929
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:27 pm
Country of Residence: UK
Location: Leicester
Contact:

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby boxerman » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:42 am

One more insulting post and you will be removed. Disagreements are fine - personal insults are not.
Phil Hawksley 'The Boxer Man' - aka 'Dangermouse'
Member #1 Much modified R80G/S - a REAL one
Why not join the BM Riders Club @ http://www.bmridersclub.com
http://www.boxerman.co.uk
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk
https://twitter.com/boxermanphil for my Badger videos

User avatar
milleplod
Forum User
Posts: 639
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:26 pm
Country of Residence: England
Location: Bolsover, home of the Beast!

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby milleplod » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:54 pm

Sorry Boxerman but I can smell Jaythro's contempt and arrogance from here, and I don't accept that attitude from anyone.If you not his reply then you can clearly see his attitude which was more masked in his previous posts, but was still there. Hence my reply to him. You get what you give.
I've read, and re- re-read Jaythro's posts on this thread. I don't see anything even bordering on what you're suggesting. No 'attitude' other than someone trying to help. I don't know him, and I do know that sometimes the context of a written reply can get a bit lost on a forum, but I don't even see that either, at all. You need to step back Dogmai. I don't know what's got you wound up here, but you're hopelessly adrift.

Pete
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'.

User avatar
Jaythro
Forum User
Posts: 2746
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:00 am
Country of Residence: Norn Iron
Location: Islandmagee, County Antrim, North East Ireland

Re: Iridium spark plug problems?

Postby Jaythro » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:35 am

Dogmai I really don't know what your problem is

I asked you questions that I would have asked anyone who had complained of problems with their bike

To Illustrate that

Does it occcur after fueling ? Silt and water can lie at the bottom of the tank adding fuel stirs it up and leads to bad running

Weather conditions if you had a cracked sparkplug cap then In dry weather it will be fine in wet weather it will misbehave when it gets wet

I have no axe to grind with you fella!

Well done in finding the problem, it is very unlikely it would have shown up on an electronic code reader as it is not as clever as people think. It can give a definitive fault for example Lamda probe short to earth .. but it cannot "see" that a fuel pump relay has failed on an R1200GS as the ECU has sent all the correct signals but the electronics have failed internally so it is not converted into switching the pump on or off

Ride Safe and Enjoy life its too short for bickering over Perceived and Non existent "contempt"

Good Luck to you!
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?


Return to “F Series Technical Q&A's”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest