How much?

Chat about anything to do with sidecars and outfits. NOT BMW specific - all welcome

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Aladin1
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How much?

Postby Aladin1 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:41 pm

I fancy putting a sidecar onto my 85 K100RT as a bit of a retirement project. I can budget for a sidecar unit but I have no idea what other costs I will be faced with to make it happen e.g. Suspension, frame mods, tyres, wheels etc. Any rough guide on costs would be appreciated from you 3 wheelers.

Regards, Alan
2007 R1200GS
1985 K100RT
1961 G12 Matchless

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Sofa
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Re: How much?

Postby Sofa » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:46 pm

Have you ever ridden a sidecar outfit? A lot of money can be spent only to find out you hate it or can't do it. It is nothing like anything else and especially nothing like riding a solo (or trike). I would make sure I knew that before buying anything. Subframe £1000, leading link forks £1500 (including suspension), rear suspension £350, wheels (15") front and rear £750 each, car tyres £100 ish a pair. Sidecar second hand tatty load of poo £200 up to £9K top of the range new. All can be done cheaper if you buy second hand bits (which are very rare), make do with stuff i.e. stick with normal forks wheels and tyres and put up with an outfit that isn't as good as it could be. What ever you will definatly need a subframe £1000 new, £300 to £500 second hand and very very rare, or make your own, need to be a competent fabricator to do that. (unfortunately the K is one of very few bikes of it's era to be monocoque and has to have a subframe, paradoxically the engine is ideally suited to sidecar work) Basically unless you want something really specific and know that because you have experience and have decided to go a certain way best bet is to buy one already done as they fetch far less second hand than they cost to build.
2003 K1200GT Hedingham HUB Sidecar. RSP Top Yoke, RT bars, ABS/Servo removed, Klicktronic. EZS subframe, trail reducing kit and rear wheel. Wheelchair rack. Previous BMWs R80RT mono, R1100GS, R80RT (added a sidecar), R100RT sidecar, K75, K100 sidecar x2, K1100 sidecar, R1150R.

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keiththeoutfitter1
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Re: How much?

Postby keiththeoutfitter1 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:34 pm

+1 on everything Sofa says. However your aim of having 'a bit of a retirement project' would seem to preclude buying a ready-built outfit. If you do decide to go ahead and convert your K and don't get on with an outfit then you stand to lose a considerable amount of cash selling the parts on, plus you will have drilled holes in the fairing/ panels for the fitings and possibly ditched the ABS if your sidecar had a braked wheel linked to the bike's rear brake - this will involve further expense in putting the bike back to standard.
To sum up, building a sidecar outfit is something that needs a lot of commitment and is probably best not done on a whim. Gone are the days when I first put a sidecar on a Velocette Venom, fastened on with simple clamps around the frame tubes and rode it home from the vendor's house 'because, at for £4 for the sidecar, why not!'
Keith
R1200RT
K1100RS + EZS Rally Sidecar
Kawasaki Versys 650

Aladin1
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Re: How much?

Postby Aladin1 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:17 pm

Thanks Sofa and Keith for your good advice. Wow I had no idea of the costs involved so it looks like that's one plan that won't happen. I have never ridden a sidecar outfit but I thought it might be a good idea to convert my K100 to give me a stable outfit that I'm not afraid to drop as my dotage encroaches.

Alan
2007 R1200GS
1985 K100RT
1961 G12 Matchless

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: How much?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:39 pm

Here's something to think about:
http://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk/ural_compare.html

http://www.ural.cc/index.php?en_index

HISTORY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMZ-Ural


I believe that if you contact F2 they can arrange sidecar trial/tuition on private ground.
If you then think that a Ural outfit might be for you, sell/part exchange the K100 for a new/used Ural outfit.

The later models have had an engineering redesign including changing to European standard bearings and seals thus greatly increasing the reliability and parts availability.

The Tourist is the "standard" of a Ural sidecar motorcycle. It comes on 19" wheels. Both cT and Tourist are delivered with leading link fork on front. In England the Tourist is called "Dalesman".
Sidecar Drive models: Unfortunately T TWD, Ranger and Sportsman are not available as a left hand sidecar (English version) because the production of this "other way round" is technically not possible.



Why not pick up a new outfit from the Irbit factory on the far side of the Urals and ride it home - that would be a trip to remember and make a great article for the Club Ezine! :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

Aladin1
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Re: How much?

Postby Aladin1 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:07 pm

That's an interesting option Ced and I would certainly consider getting a Ural outfit when my K100 and 1200GS become too big and heavy for me to handle (stationary that is). They are certainly a capable machine and I like their utilitarian looks and character. I'll have a look around at used outfits as I can't afford a new one now that I'm retired.

Alan
2007 R1200GS
1985 K100RT
1961 G12 Matchless

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Sofa
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Re: How much?

Postby Sofa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:45 am

ural-ranger-01.jpg
Alan, if you have never ridden an outfit then go and get some training. In inexperienced hands they can be quite dangerous. I have ridden bikes, driven cars, HGVs even tankers and have to say sidecars are by far the most difficult to master. In fact a friend who has built 20 outfits and ridden them on an almost daily basis (he is the best road sidecar rider I know and his wife is the second best) says you never truly master an outfit and the minute you think you have it bites you. Have a look here at the basic principals, ( http://www.sidecars.org.uk/info.html ) there is also a number for Len Tempest who has a sidecar outfit with "dual controls" i.e. he can take over from the sidecar if it goes pear shaped. I had a days training before (with another provider) some years ago, before I put a chair on my R80 and even then had a few hairy moments when I first started, goodness knows what damage I could have done to myself, my bike and others if I hadn't had that. Basically you accelerate to go left and decelerate to go right. Too fast on a left hander the chair comes up though, brake on a left and you vere onto the other side of the road. Take a right hander too fast and the back wheel of the bike comes up, get that really wrong and it will dig the front of the sidecar in and flip back over front, landing on the rider, as photo above. (although it is actually a R.H. mounted sidecar so is going round a Left Hander too fast)
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Last edited by Sofa on Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2003 K1200GT Hedingham HUB Sidecar. RSP Top Yoke, RT bars, ABS/Servo removed, Klicktronic. EZS subframe, trail reducing kit and rear wheel. Wheelchair rack. Previous BMWs R80RT mono, R1100GS, R80RT (added a sidecar), R100RT sidecar, K75, K100 sidecar x2, K1100 sidecar, R1150R.

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: How much?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:07 pm

Good post Sofa! =D> :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Sofa
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Re: How much?

Postby Sofa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:22 pm

Thanks Ced, I want to encourage sidecar riding and the biggest thing that discourages folk is having a go with no knowledge or training and then having an accident, never riding one again and also putting their friends off. I always knew they where difficult having ridden in several in my late teens/early twenties so when I decided to get one in 2003/4 I knew I had to get some training, luckily a friend had bought a new Ural and had some training and he encouraged me to do likewise before I even bought a sidecar. I then got one, had it fitted, badly, then refitted by the guy I mentioned who saw me at an event and pointed out is wasn't actually safe, then second hand leading links where acquired, square section tyres, uprated suspension and finally a different ratio final drive, so been there done that. Since that one I've had 4 other outfits all bought as outfits. Now having one build for me, rather expensive but my needs now are very specific and that is never going to be cheap.
2003 K1200GT Hedingham HUB Sidecar. RSP Top Yoke, RT bars, ABS/Servo removed, Klicktronic. EZS subframe, trail reducing kit and rear wheel. Wheelchair rack. Previous BMWs R80RT mono, R1100GS, R80RT (added a sidecar), R100RT sidecar, K75, K100 sidecar x2, K1100 sidecar, R1150R.

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george baker
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Re: How much?

Postby george baker » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Hi
everything the chairmen said except the hardest thing I ever rode was a 3 wheeled disability Trike (Nippy or maybe Trippy) which I just could not get to go straight or in fact anywhere I aimed it.

My advice would be go and ride one, under supervision. I just bought one and rode it, but I was young, stupid and indestructible.

Buy one cos the K is not a cheap or practical project for almost anyone, and like the others say they fetch less than they cost. An R is an easier bet
brake on a left and you vere onto the other side of the road
Yep I remember that crash, and a few others

Too much Front brake can have the whole plot pivot around the headstock (and a traffic bollard) making my wife think I was showing off

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE


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