Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

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georgeferg
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Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby georgeferg » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:30 am

when riding the other day on my r1100rt I had to do a fairly heavy braking manoeuvre and it took way longer than I expected to pull up. My abs lights have been flashing for a while and bike passed mot like that so I assumed they were fine. On inspection buttons on front discs are knackered and replacement ordered.

So on reading other threads it would seem a costly repair to fix abs or other option to remove and set up as standard probably with dual braided from the master. What's best regardless of cost?

Other thing is rear braking. I tend to only use front brake. Is this ok with abs working or is both best. If so I have to modify rear lever for my arthritic feet! You should see me gear shift mod!

So abs or not? Back braking or not?

Cheers fergie

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:04 am

Hi Fergie,

Your R1100RT is fitted with the ABS2 (ABSII) system.
This system is one of the most robust and reliable bike ABS systems produced.

If you believe that your ABS2 system is faulty, then start a new thread for this to see if the forum can help get it fixed.

You need to advise WHEN your two ABS Warning Lights change from flashing together to flashing alternately (fail).
Failing when the Starter Button is pressed is a VERY common problem with the R1100 and usually indicates an aged (weak) battery.

There is a Motronic (ECU)/ABS diagnostic port fitted to your R1100RT - this is on top of the rear mudguard at the rear of the Rider's seat and fitted with a removable blue protective cap which covers the three socket pins.
This is used to read Fault Codes, Reset the ABS and a couple of other functions.

You also may need to read if any Fault Code is stored in the ABS Controller.
There are a couple of ways to do this but the best and easiest way is to purchase the Motobins Fault Code Reader for around £25.
This allows you to count the Fault Code FLASHES which is much easier than trying to count Fault Code SPACES (dips) using an LED or Voltmeter.

Once you have the Fault Code it is easier to determine the problem and what action might be taken.

If a 'hard' fault has been recorded, then, when the fault has been fixed/cleared, the ABS Controller needs to be RESET before the system will start working normally.

Here is Anton Largiader's link on ABS Faults - check out the ABS2 sections:
http://www.largiader.com/abs/absfault.html
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby Jaythro » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:24 am

George The 1100RT as Ced has said has ABS II a very robust system if some sort of Fluid change regime has been followed

If the ABS lights flash alternately when you turn on the ignition? Then you have a stored fault code "OR" you have had a flat battery and recharged or changed it and the system needs a reset!

If however, they Only start to flash once you press the starter button? Then you have a weak battery or a high current drawing starter and addressing these issues will see that fault disappear, without any reset required, as it is not a stored fault.

A reset is very easily carried out and IF there is a more sinister fault? It will show up immediately again which will require the "flash" codes to be read out

One thing to make sure of is, that when the ABS lights flash alternately. when you press and release your ABS button, that the lights cease to flash and only the lower light is left illuminated.

If that doesn't happen you need to investigate the ABS button for a possible wire broken off where the solder and wire meet (its an age thing) You need the switch to "Acknowledge" the fault notification for the reset procedure. (The Button does not reset anything on its own, it just tells the ECU that you have seen that you have an ABS fault and it will then stop flashing the lights alternately and let you get on with riding the bike )

So If you extinguish the flash and have only one light you are ready to try the reset Switch off the ignition

Procedure:-

find the Diagnostic connector, It is usually around underneath the rider saddle and clicked into or capped with a blue cap / holder

You will need a bit of wire stripped at both ends.

neatly twist and fit one stripped end into the centre socket of the diagnostic plug

get a good connection to ground for the other end I have seen a lot of folks use a small crocodile clip to connect to the battery negative Which is the left side of the bike and "just" accessible on an 1100

Once you have a good connection ?

the bike will need to be on the centre stand to work on an 1100 unless you have the engine run / sidestand down wring modification done

1) Switch on the Ignition

2) Press and Hold the ABS button Approx 20 ~30 seconds The lamps should cease to flash immediately and the lower lamp will remain illuminated as soon as you press the button. (if they continue flashing there's a problem with your button or very unlikely in the ECU )

3) Release the ABS button The lower lamp will remain illuminated

4) Switch off the ignition

5) count to ten

6) switch back on and ....

Are the lamps flashing on and off "together"?

If yes You have successfully reset the system

If not? Try again Hold the button down for longer but its also worth trying with a battery charger connected It is a voltage sensitive operation, One of its few annoying foibles that it had

If it still does not reset then It would be better to get the fault codes read!


YOu can do simple checks ..

Has the rear wheel been off recently ? Did they refit the spacer ring correctly?

There needs to be an "air gap" between the abs ring and the sensor, for these to work correctly

Air Gap is next Is there a small gap between the ABS sensor face and the ABS ring ?? Measurements are on the swingarm and fork leg

Does the wiring to the rear sensor look damaged? just where it exits the sensor and heads forward This is a favourite place for a breakage i.e. No sensor seen at ignition on = system fail

and if you have corrosion around the lower left front fork leg? I have seen the sensor actually crushed with salts build up
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

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Jaythro
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby Jaythro » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:40 am

P.S. I cannot understand why people say that they do not use their back brake ???

You have the best of both worlds here!

You cannot lock the wheel because you have ABS and using it frequently keeps components from seizing up ??

It is also worthy of inspection that the callipers are free from salt and corrosion and that the pistons are free moving etc etc

the 1100RT had a deep front mudguard and the callipers were pretty weld hidden from easily accessible washing

So the pistons get stuck because they cannot retract due to salt ingress behind the outer seal (wiper ring) which presses the seal against the piston

Happily Motorworks and the like do a replacement kit which happily includes all the pistons and seals So for £65 a side you get new callipers
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

MightyTharg
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby MightyTharg » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:55 pm

Yes use both brakes - they are not linked on the 1100 so pulling the handlebar lever means you're not using any rear.

The standard rear pedal is stupidly small and awkward to get too, one of the best things I've done to my RT is fitting a brake pedal extender, it slides over the original round pedal and increases the diameter and length of the pedal. Made by Wunderlich (and others) and available from Nippy Normans / ebay / wherever. I have a dodgy right ankle and was struggling before fitting the pedal extender.

The ABS2 is basically pretty robust and reliable, the later BMW ABS systems (after they ditched servo brakes) are even better but the ABS2 is better than what I had fitted to my 2013 Harley Street Glide and about as good as the ABS on my 2015 Harley Street Glide. The brakes themselves are not as powerful as later bikes, but keeping on top of fluid changes, replacing the brake lines if they're spongy and trying different pads can help.

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Jaythro
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby Jaythro » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:18 pm

MightyTharg Now there's a name that goes back a while

2000A.D. Comic eh?

The other problem is that Harley for whatever reason used DOT 5.0 Which should be a Purple Brake fluid and is Silicone based and does not have the compression resistance of the Eythelene glycol which is the primary constituent of DOT3, DOT4, or the more recent DOT 5.1 brake and clutch fluids

Only the Americans could ever come up with something that makes it "feasible" to mix these fluids!!!

Just to clarify DOT3 DOT4 and DOT5.1 are miscible
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby King Herald » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:59 am

I have NEVER understood the logic that calls silicon based brake fluid DOT 5.1 and the rest of the mineral based DOT 3, 4, and 5.

Some clown in Halfords once insisted that 5.1 was virtually the same as 5.0 and could be used instead, and stupidly I trusted his word......

Luckily I did my own research in time and drained, refilled my Harley brakes before any possible damage occurred.

Though I have heard since that in practise it makes little or no difference, I don’t want to test it out on my own brake system.
R1100R
Suzuki Bandit 1200

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Jaythro
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Re: Brakes! Abs or not? Front or both?

Postby Jaythro » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:50 pm

Heads UP! Please NOTE DOT 5 Is silicone based, should be purple and can't be mixed with those below

3, 4 and 5.1 are Eythlene glycol based and can mix with each other BUT Cannot be mixed with DOT 5


I have NEVER understood the logic that calls silicon based brake fluid DOT 5.1 and the rest of the mineral based DOT 3, 4, and 5.

Some clown in Halfords once insisted that 5.1 was virtually the same as 5.0 and could be used instead, and stupidly I trusted his word......

Luckily I did my own research in time and drained, refilled my Harley brakes before any possible damage occurred.

Though I have heard since that in practise it makes little or no difference, I don’t want to test it out on my own brake system.
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?


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