Gear selector switch issue

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mike pace
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Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Mon May 29, 2017 4:10 pm

Today after now realising it might have been playing up for a little while the bike would not show neutral and so would not start.
Question is should I buy a new switch or a second hand one?
Is a 55 plate r1200gs prone to this and if so, is getting a secondhand one just as risky.
£125 or £60

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon May 29, 2017 6:00 pm

If the Neutral Switch fails a workaround is usually made by using the Clutch Switch whereby the Clutch is operated in conjuction with the Starter Button while in any gear.

However, if the Clutch Switch fails too then you cannot easily start the bike.

An Emergency Start can be made on the Oilhead series by TAPPING a wire from the +12v on the Starter Motor top large nut Battery connection to the Starter Solenoid terminal 50 (the thin black wire with female blade connector) with the bike in Neutral and on the Mainstand.
However, I'm not sure if this will also activate the Ignition on the Canbus Hexheads although it will operate the Starter Motor.

The Starter Motor on a GS is more accessible than on an RT so this emergency start is easier to do.

Check the Neutral Switch connector is not corroded.
You could also do an emergency start by jumpering this connector to simulate a working switch.
The switch usually sends an earth back when the gearbox is in Neutral.
[see Later Edit]

Changing the Neutral Switch and Gear Position Switch on Oilheads involves removing the swing arm paralever as the switch is located behind it - I think the Hexheads may be the same.
[see Later Edit]

I would bite the bullet and use a new part for this critical function given the work involved in replacing it.
If it was easily changed then a used part might do if a spare was carried while touring.

LATER EDIT:
Just had a look at an R1200 2004 - 2006 Wiring diagram.
There does not appear to be a separate Neutral Switch that I can see and I'm wondering if the Neutral position sensing is done by the Gear Position Sensor?
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Mon May 29, 2017 7:34 pm

Hi Ced, yes it's the gear pos sensor. It's easy to get at and no need to remove swing arm. Having failed two miles from home I'm not keen for it to go again. Of course having called out rescue, it found neutral as soon as he touched the gear lever and started. I rode it home.
Guess I'll go for the part after I've checked the connector. Thanks for the advice.

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue new symptom

Postby mike pace » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:07 pm

Hi Ced
Out of interest and the bike having dried out and apparently working properly (now I have ordered a new part), I tried to start the bike with it in gear and the clutch pulled in. Side stand up.It won't start! No turnover at all.
Does this suggest a problem with the clutch sensor as well do you think

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Gear selector switch issue new symptom

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:18 pm

Hi Ced
Out of interest and the bike having dried out and apparently working properly (now I have ordered a new part), I tried to start the bike with it in gear and the clutch pulled in. Side stand up.It won't start! No turnover at all.
Does this suggest a problem with the clutch sensor as well do you think

Hi Mike,

It sounds like your Clutch Switch may not be working.

I had this on my R1100RT when I found that I couldn't start the bike in gear using the Clutch.
A continuity check on the Clutch Switch at the Clutch lever mounting confirmed it was always open-circuit.

Looking at a 2005 R1200GS Wiring Diagram (should be in your Haynes manual), the Clutch Switch is a Normally Open (NO) switch which closes when the Clutch is operated.

There is a 2-pole connector connecting it to the Engine Control Unit.
Trace the lead back to this connector and disconnect it.
Then do a continuity check on the connector back towards the switch- there should only be continuity with the Clutch operated.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Thanks, I will report in due course.

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milleplod
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby milleplod » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:41 pm

The clutch switch on my ST had been playing up, on and off, for a while - I'd squirted a bit of contact cleaner in it, which worked for a while, but it soon went back to being intermittent, and then it stopped working altogether. A few weeks ago, I thought I'd do it properly, so whipped it out for a look - the amount of black gunge in the housing was unbelievable, a combination of road dirt and possibly brake dust from the front pads.

Anyway, 5 mins of proper cleaning with contact cleaner and a brush....job done. This being a one-man job, I put it back into the housing and slightly tightened the retaining screw, then pulled the clutch lever in and held it there with a tie-wrap. Ignition on, thumb on starter, then I moved the switch till the engine turned over, then tightened the screw. Voila, I was quite pleased with myself! :grin:

If you do take the switch out, be very careful you dont lose the little drawing-pin shaped thing that sits in the body of the switch for the retaining screw to tighten onto - mine fell into the stones on the drive and I spent 45 minutes searching for the little b*****d! :shock:

Pete
'L'enfer, c'est les autres'.

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Thanks Pete, I'll give it a go this weekend.

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Re: Gear selector switch issue new symptom

Postby steptoe » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:32 pm




Hi Mike,

It sounds like your Clutch Switch may not be working.

I had this on my R1100RT when I found that I couldn't start the bike in gear using the Clutch.
A continuity check on the Clutch Switch at the Clutch lever mounting confirmed it was always open-circuit.

Looking at a 2005 R1200GS Wiring Diagram (should be in your Haynes manual), the Clutch Switch is a Normally Open (NO) switch which closes when the Clutch is operated.

There is a 2-pole connector connecting it to the Engine Control Unit.
Trace the lead back to this connector and disconnect it.
Then do a continuity check on the connector back towards the switch- there should only be continuity with the Clutch operated.
...

...

The clutch switch is adjustable on 1200 models.

I suggest the O/P simply adjusts it.

The (very) small locking screw is under the handlebar switch.

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:35 pm

Hi all,
So the gear switch thingy is held in place by two external torx bolts. I got myself a very nice little set of torx sockets from screwfix but there is not enough room to get the drive in due to swingarm. Is there such a thing as a torx ratchet spanner?
I can see me replacing the torx bolts for ordinary hex heads.
But worse, the new part is modified and comes with cable attached so I need to know whether it's a simple job of removing the starter motor to track the connector. Anyone done this job before and what tips.
Removing the swing arm is too big a job for me.

steptoe
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby steptoe » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:00 pm

Sherlocks have given you the later type of switch. You need the early switch.
Also you need to get the correct early switch as the mating section inside the switch varies between models. Check the motorworks website for the differences in various types available so you can match yours.

I undo the two switch mounting bolts easy enough without the need to remove any other parts by using a torx ring spanner..

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Hi steptoe, I'm happy I have the correct inner. It's D shaped.
I understood the weak part of the old type was the cable plug and so was happy to see it came with cable attached. Problem is, where is the other end as it seems to be behind the starter motor.
Glad to hear about the torx ring spanner though, as that will work, if I can get one. Search beginning shortly.
Thanks for the help.

macplaxton
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby macplaxton » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:08 am

I know a month has passed, but I'm slow to catch up!
Is there such a thing as a torx ratchet spanner?
Glad to hear about the torx ring spanner though, as that will work, if I can get one. Search beginning shortly.
Indeed there is such a thing as a Torx ratchet spanner. For fasteners going by the generic name of "hexalobular head bolts with large flange" A.K.A. DIN 34801, there are ratchet spanners for the job.

Facom do individual spanners, but they are about £30. They also do sets of 3 (c. £57) and 4 (c. £68). They are part of the 464TX series:
Image

Beta Tools do them too, 195FTX series - individually about £16 for an E10/E12, a non-ratchet version is about £7 (95FTX series)

And finally, a nice enough looking Taiwanese set of four for £30. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262044293599
'99 R1100RT Image

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:41 pm

Hi Mac, I got some spanners from Halfords thanks. My question at the mo, is where is the wire connector? It appears to be behind the starter motor, if it is then no worries. I'm just trying to keep down the number of bits I remove.

steptoe
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby steptoe » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:34 pm

Hi Mac, I got some spanners from Halfords thanks. My question at the mo, is where is the wire connector? It appears to be behind the starter motor, if it is then no worries. I'm just trying to keep down the number of bits I remove.
Depends on the year of bike... early ones had electrical connector push fit into the switch, later ones had a short lead and located behind starter motor as you stated.

mike pace
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Re: Gear selector switch issue

Postby mike pace » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:04 pm

The current one plugs into the switch. The replacement part which I am told is an improvement, goes behind the starter motor. So a little bit longer job then.
Thanks for the help.


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