Satnavs on the Waterboxer

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racingt

Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby racingt » Wed May 20, 2015 10:25 am

Hi guys, got the R1200RT LE, which is a fantastic bike and a huge step on from my 2008 RT.
Tend to ride with Post it nav, taped to the petrol tank. Been largely successful. But occasionally need a satnav for the last hour of a journey. Don't particularly want to pay over £600 when a great car Garmin costs just £150. And may fit the Motorrad shaped place in the dashboard!
Am I simply being mean, or have others thought this way, and has anyone arrived at a fixing solution?
Thanks for responses.
Phil

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed May 20, 2015 1:11 pm

Hi Phil,

I use a refurbished TomTom One car type satnav on my R1100RT. I got it off Ebay for around £60 and it has done me a good few years now.

It sits on the dashboard behind the screen and I fit a rain cover/sunshield over it in storm conditions otherwise it can be left uncovered.

The following link is for an R1100RT but may give you some ideas:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21122
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Ruralman » Wed May 20, 2015 6:54 pm

I also use a Garmin Car Satnav on my R1200gsa, I've extended the power from the socket up to the handlebars area to power it. The Satnav is situated on the frame that holds the wind shield.
I use a waterproof container to hold the Satnav.
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Keith Hillier
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racingt

Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby racingt » Wed May 20, 2015 11:26 pm

Thanks Keith, Ced. Seems easy enough and with strong Velcro should be pretty secure. Probably in a waterproof area as it is situated. The positionis ideal, which was the difficulty on my 08 model. Going to have a go!
Time to spend the cash on riding, rather than extra stuff....
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby chasbmw » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:36 am

I use an I phone, there is a great sat on app for it called Co Pilot, full euro coverage for around £30, speed cameras etc etc, all the data is held on the phones memory, so no probs with incurring data charges when abroad, add a waterproof holder £40 and a USB power supply and you have a proper sat nav which is very easy to use and to adapt routes so that you go where You want to go, rather than where the sat nav wants to take you.
The system uses the phones processor which is very much faster than Garmin processors, and takes some location info from phone masts (no data cost) so the sat nav works much better than any Garmin I have used and the software is much better than Garmins clunky stuff.

If you have a Bluetooth helmet setup, the sat nag instructions come through loud and clear, plays music from the phone, all works very well. I have used this setup for about 4 years now and am very happy especially as it cuts down the number of gadgets you need to take on a trip.(phone also has replaced my camera)
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:11 am

I use an I phone, there is a great sat on app for it called Co Pilot, full euro coverage for around £30, speed cameras etc etc, all the data is held on the phones memory, so no probs with incurring data charges when abroad, add a waterproof holder £40 and a USB power supply and you have a proper sat nav which is very easy to use and to adapt routes so that you go where You want to go, rather than where the sat nav wants to take you.
The system uses the phones processor which is very much faster than Garmin processors, and takes some location info from phone masts (no data cost) so the sat nav works much better than any Garmin I have used and the software is much better than Garmins clunky stuff.

If you have a Bluetooth helmet setup, the sat nag instructions come through loud and clear, plays music from the phone, all works very well. I have used this setup for about 4 years now and am very happy especially as it cuts down the number of gadgets you need to take on a trip.(phone also has replaced my camera)
Hi Chas,

I am interested in your setup as my old modified TomTom One suffers from slow processor speed and out-of-date maps and POIs.

I looked up Co Pilot on the App Store and see that I can get a free 7-day trial on the download with the options of purchasing the appropriate map/s later.

Some questions:
1. Noted that the iPhone GPS function can draw a fair bit of power from the iPhone when using the App.
Do you use a special USB socket to iPhone power lead for keeping the iPhone battery fully charged with high-drain Apps?
I think there was a thread this year on the Forum about using a special 'Power only non-Data USB to iPhone' lead which allowed more power to keep the iPhone battery fully charged when using the GPS continually. - I haven't found this thread yet.

2. The iPhone needs a 5v power supply like my existing TomTom satnav. I am thinking of wiring this directly to the battery with the Power Adapter under the Rider seat - do you use a similar arrangement and what type/size/power of 12v to 5v power adapter do you use for the iPhone?

3. What mounting/weatherproofing arrangement do you use?
I currently use a modified TomTom windscreen mount screwed to the dash panel below the R1100RT windscreen and a removable homemade sun/rain shield which slips over the top, back and sides of the TomTom when required to keep off storm rain.
I was thinking of a Velcro pad onto the back of the iPhone on the existing mount and a similar type homemade cover as a trial. This would allow the iPhone to be easily removed when parked.

4. Does the Co Pilot App operate fast enough to see your exact position when navigating roundabouts?
My TomTom One with the Edition 2 Navcore 7.0 software is too slow to see your exact position on a roundabout and I often miss my correct exit because of this.

5. Can you add your own POI Categories and POIs to Co Pilot?
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby chasbmw » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:31 pm

I use a waterproof iPhone specific case, it has been waterproof so far and the screen will operate the touch screen on the IPhone ( it helps to have rubber tabs on your gloves to operate the touchscreen.) I have a Ram ball on the bike with a short arm to the ram ball on the phone case.

Power to the phone is absolutely required because GPS use will deplete the batteries in a couple of hours, on both my bikes I have a USB converter, wired to switched power underneath the tank and use a standard apple charging wire from the USB to the phone case. This cable is permanent. Taking the phone off the bike takes moments. There is no issue with the phone charging, at the end of the ride it will be 100% charged.
The system shows you the correct exit on a roundabout, (occasionally the spoken instructions will be wrong!). If you do take a wrong turn the machine almost instantly come up with an alternative route and doesn't keep nagging you that you are off course. I don't know how easy it would be to add a file of your own POIs to Co Pilot, especially on an iPhone, I think that it would be easier on an Android? You can obviously add favourites. I sometimes use an IPad for looking at routes, but I don't know how you would transfer the routes to your IPhone. Routing is very easy, using the touchscreen to add waypoints so that you go the way you want to go. Routes can be saved and reloaded. Maps and POIs are periodically updated, 2d and 3d views

The Europe maps includes most of Eastern Europe and Turkey, when I was in Albania last year the infor was only a bit batter than a base map but still navigated. I have used co pilot in South Africa successfully and more areas of the world are being added. Like all sat nags don't leave your brains at home! Occasionally it will do stupid things.

It's worth while playing with the free version, but it is fairly basic.

The down side are:
Touchscreen is not really glove friendly , I often use BMW Gs summer gloves which have rubber bits that seem to work
When it is very hot, the iPhone will reduce the screen brightness automatically, but a touch to the screen or the sat nav changing the picture as you are coming up to a junction usually seems to restore the brightness.
Charles
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:26 pm

Thanks Charles! :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby chasbmw » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:26 am

Ced,

I've got a waterproof USB converter going free if you want. Pm me
Charles
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Douglas C » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:21 am

Garmin Zumo 660 is still available from various outlets, with lifetime map updates for under £300.
I use one which gets transferred from car to bike mount as required.
Fully waterproof, and glove friendly when in bike mode.
Douglas C.

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:26 am

Hi Charles,

Thank you for your kind offer!

I am still pondering whether to run your Co Pilot system or retain my current TomTom satnav.

The bike was wired for a NavCom system last winter which basically is a hard-wired AutoCom unit with inputs from the TomTom satnav and iPhone (stored in glove box). This gives me satnav, music, and comms all heard by rider and pillion (Irene).
I have therefore already got a USB adapter which plugs into the dash socket to power the iPhone so I won't need to take up your kind offer - thank you!

However, on our first few outings on the bike this year, Irene suffered badly from nausea and we couldn't understand why.

It eventually turned out that the cause was the speakers I had fitted in her helmet (which she didn't really want anyway!) which were pressing on her ears.
I removed the speakers and all is fine again.

I am going to have a look at possibly re-wiring the NavCom system this winter so that the iPhone can be moved from the glove box and fitted in the same position as my current satnav to see how it all might work using your Co Pilot system.
The same TomTom is also used when in the car so if I did adopt Co Pilot then the TomTom would stay with the car permanently.

Incidentally, in the iPhone Settings/Display & Brightness, there is an Auto-Brightness slide on/off button which may help with the screen brightness changing when it is very hot by selecting a suitable manual setting.

Thanks again for your offer - I'll let you know if I change over to Co Pilot!
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:40 am

Garmin Zumo 660 is still available from various outlets, with lifetime map updates for under £300.
I use one which gets transferred from car to bike mount as required.
Fully waterproof, and glove friendly when in bike mode.
Hi Douglas,

Thanks for posting that info - it's a lot cheaper than the equivalent TomTom Rider!
The Lifetime maps is a good feature as well.

However, being a typical Scot, I was initially reluctant to spend a lot of money on a bike satnav and bought a car-type TomTom One off Ebay to trial on the bike.
This was to see if I got on with this modern form of navigation after using just maps and tankbag route directions for years!
Also, I was not sure if the car-type satnav would survive the conditions on the bike.

I am happy to say that I have now been converted off maps and thoroughly love the satnav!
The little TomTom One has survived very well for years under its home-made rain cover when in storm conditions and only suffers from out-of-date maps (Western Europe).

The Co Pilot system which Charles uses is tempting as it will cost me around £50 to update the maps on my satnav (4 updates for for a year).
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby chasbmw » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:58 am

Ced,

With an iPhone in a bike holder, it's good idea to run maximum brightness on manual, as the sensor gets confused on auto in a holder.
I think that when the iPhone gets very hot, such as can happen outside of the UK in bright sunshine , the phone turns down the screen to reduce heat, never seems to be an issue in use as still have spoken instructions. Co pilot in a simplified form can be used for free, such a refreshing change to get away from clunky farming software, and the processor on your phone is likely to be so much quicker than the Garmin one
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Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby colinsb » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:36 pm

Because I thought I'd lost my original, I now have two Zumo 660s. The now superfluous one owes me £165 and I could easily be persuaded that I don't need one on each bike!

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:33 pm

Ced,

With an iPhone in a bike holder, it's good idea to run maximum brightness on manual, as the sensor gets confused on auto in a holder.
I think that when the iPhone gets very hot, such as can happen outside of the UK in bright sunshine , the phone turns down the screen to reduce heat, never seems to be an issue in use as still have spoken instructions. Co pilot in a simplified form can be used for free, such a refreshing change to get away from clunky farming software, and the processor on your phone is likely to be so much quicker than the Garmin one
Hi Charles [chasbmw],

I tried a lash up on the bike tonight with my iPhone 4S loaded with the 'Here' offline satnav program.
It worked OK but with one or two anomalies and seems to be quite basic.

I have now downloaded the 7-day trial version of 'Co Pilot' to try out tomorrow.
Having looked at the 'Co Pilot' program this evening it appears to be very intuitive in operation as I did not have much bother working out its functions.
Looks a nice program.

If I like the system better than the TomTom, I will get a proper QD mount for the iPhone - it's held on with rubber bands to my TomTom mount at the moment.
I am looking at the QuadLock mount which comes with a rain-resistant cover. The Bike mount kit (for a pushbike) would appear to be suitable for mounting onto my existing modified TomTom mount which would be good:
http://www.quadlockcase.co.uk/products/bike-kit-ip4

Do you use your iPhone in the Portrait or Landscape position when using Co Pilot? Is one position more suitable than the other?
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Ruralman » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:18 am

Hi Ced,
I use my iPhone in portrait position when using copilot satnav. So far I've been impressed with copilot performance and my old car satnav seems to be redundant :grin:
I have the full paid for Co Pilot app but I use it in offline mode which may mean that I'm missing some of the features :wink:
Regards
Keith

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby chasbmw » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:16 am

I use it in Portrait, 2D mode, seems to work for me. When I'm travelling I find it very easy to do next day's route, I get the system to do the basic routing, then drop needed waypoints to adjust the route so that I go where I want to go. Just make sure that you put the waypoints ON the route rather than just off, so that you pass over them on the way. Then in options save the route. I use traffic info when in the UK but don't use it abroad due to possible data costs. The sat nav both home and abroad uses phone tower locations to assist the GPSso acquiring satellites is very quick and as I have said before the processor in your phone is much faster than the processors in stand alone sat nags. Maybe by using phone tower data helps the GPS maintain its fix in difficult situations such as cities?
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:51 am

Thanks for the feedback guys! =D> :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:34 pm

Just got this bike mount kit for my R1100RT motorcycle - expensive, but it is well-designed and works very well.
The rain cover (Poncho) is touch-friendly so my iPhone 4S touch screen works with the rain cover on.
I am using the iPhone in lieu of my normal TomTom satnav and I am running the CoPilot App on the iPhone.

The rain cover has mouldings over the connector/button/earphone areas and these can be cut out/melted out for connector access as required.
Using a smartphone for the CoPilot App will flatten the phone battery very quickly so the phone needs to be kept connected to the bike battery for continual charging.

The CoPilot App downloads a map to the phone so the navigation system is used Off line and thus no Mobile or Internet connection is required - it works via GPS alone.
The App has a 7 day free trial with a free map of your choice - after that period the Voice Guided Navigation stops working until a payment of £18 is made for Lifetime Voice Guided Navigation.
Cheaper than updating my TomTom map for a year (£50).

I previously made a quick lashup to try out the iPhone and the CoPilot App and it seemed to work out OK to justify buying the Quad Lock system.
The main advantage of this system is that the iPhone can be mounted on and removed from the bike in 2 seconds.

The QuadLock mount is mounted on a modified TomTom One mount screwed to the dash - two 3mm holes drilled for zip ties on the TomTom mount fixes the Quad Lock mount securely onto the TomTom mount.

Thanks for the info Charles [chasbmw] on getting this CoPilot system setup! =D> :grin:

Other phones are catered for as well - see link:

http://www.quadlockcase.co.uk/products/bike-kit-ip4
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - It works!

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby TR80 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:12 pm

I picked a Zumo 550 & mount up on ebay for £100 or so and a £15 lead from Nippy Normans to plug it into the GS loom.
(same socket as the Nav is wired into, behind the RH indicator).
Took off the Navigator mount and used the Nav mount backplate, a made up matching spacer & four 55mm setscrews to fix the Garmin mount in it's place. A half hour job.
Of course, it doesn't work with the BMW grip wheel thingy but switches on and off with the ignition as the Nav5 would.
It's a whole lot cheaper though.

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby raesewell » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:15 pm

After spending a considerable amount on the bike, why does it grate so much to splash out on a dedicated sat nav. Something I never understand #-o

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby gogs01 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:59 pm

After spending a considerable amount on the bike .....
I hope you're not referring to Ced's bike ! :grin:

But seriously, there are some advantages to using a smart phone as a satnav. I've got a new RT and I got a Navigator V at the same time - I like the convenience of both a dedicated satnav and one designed in as part of the bike. I can however see a day when we all have smart phones and automatically use them as satnavs while driving, riding, cycling, walking, just as we use them as cameras now in place of dedicated cameras. It should be possible to make mounts for phones which are neat, robust and waterproof when the demand is there.
Current BMW : 2017MY R1200RT LE in Platinum Bronze :smile:
Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:25 pm

After spending a considerable amount on the bike .....
I hope you're not referring to Ced's bike ! :grin:
Ha ha ! :lol:

I think he might be..... :shock:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby raesewell » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:36 pm

I went down the Car nav route (pardon the pun) and after a short while got myself a dedicated bike nav. The dedicated units are more expensive for a couple of reasons. They are made to withstand the vibration found on bikes and also they are made to be waterproof. The dedicated units have options not found on the Car navs, winding routes hilly routes etc. I have the Tomtom app on my phone as well, as a back up, and to my surprise the app does have the winding route option. I have owned Garmin and Tomtom and am definitely a Tomtom man, I currently have the Tomtom 400 which has LIve Traffic and cameras via a data link to a Smartphone. I have always found Tomtoms easy to use and very intuitive as opposed to Garmin that seem to me very un-intuitive and awkward. Don't start me on the mapping software for Garmin, Basecamp, Mapsource = nightmare.
I frequent many forums and time and time again I read about people having difficulties with the Garmin software and rarely if ever hear of Tomtom users complaining.

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Re: Satnavs on the Waterboxer

Postby milleplod » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:51 pm

In the past, I only ever used my Lumia phone as a satnav on the bike in an 'oh my God, I'm really, really lost' scenario, and it helped me out of a fix quite a few times. Another issue with phones is the screen - even with the brightness turned up full, if its a very sunny day the screen's hard to see. Of course, if you're hooked up to the phone via a headset, that issue isn't too much of a problem. I bought a Garmin Zumo 390LM last year - its a wonderful bit of kit! Planning routes on MotoGoLoco is so simple its unbelievable, and sending them straight to the Garmin is child's play. I've not used it on a proper run on the bike yet, but over the winter I've put 'out of the way' routes onto it for my usual drives in the car, and the routes I've created and loaded work perfectly. I'm very impressed with it. :smile:

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