Windscreen motor relay

Post your Oilhead technical queries here

Moderator: Moderators

davidhassall
Forum User
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:03 pm
Country of Residence: United Kingdom

Windscreen motor relay

Postby davidhassall » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:06 pm

Hi, I have a windscreen which doesn't move on my 2003 BMW 1150RT. I suspect a relay fault as all fuses OK and can't hear any click when pressing switch. Where is the relay situated, it doesn't mention it in my Clymer manual.
Many thanks
david

User avatar
george baker
Moderator/Club Member
Posts: 6999
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:51 am
Country of Residence: uk
Location: Manchester,UK

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby george baker » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:56 pm

Hi
welcome, where are you based?

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

davidhassall
Forum User
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:03 pm
Country of Residence: United Kingdom

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby davidhassall » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:39 pm

Thanks, I live in Abergavenny in South Wales

User avatar
MilfoilMan
Club Member 13
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 4:13 pm
Country of Residence: UK
Location: Barnsley

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby MilfoilMan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Hi David,
Recently took both my relays out to stop the screen descending of its own accord when turning sharp left with the tank bag on. I always need mine on full height. Remove dash panel and loosen off the speedo cluster. You will be able to move that out of the way sufficient to get a small hand (my son-in-law's) down the right hand side to prise out the relays. They are the same colour ... greyish on mine. Good luck and I hope this helps.
Rich
I promised myself a boxer for the past 35 yrs. Now at last a R1100RT 2001 known as "The Black Madonna, Gypsy Queen" .... "Adventure before Dementia"

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator
Posts: 8750
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:39 pm

Hi David,

I have an R1100RT and I believe that the 1150RT Windscreen operating circuit is similar to the R1100RT.
The problem may more likely be due to a faulty Windscreen Raise/Lower Switch rather than a faulty relay and this can best be tested on the Relay Sockets after the relays have been unplugged.
You can set up all the test conditions for Windscreen operation on these sockets.
To do this, download Doug Raymond's ladder type Wiring Diagram for your R1150RT from the link given in the following two articles for the R1100RT Windscreen.
Note that the wiring colour and Fuse numbers in the article may be different for your R1150RT than for the R1100RT but Doug's R1150RT wiring diagram will keep you right.

R1100RT WINDSCREEN ELECTRICS.txt Issue: 30/10/2017

Author: C. Mungall.
Date: 22/05/2012.
Ref: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/u ... Post779158

See also file: 'R1100RT Windscreen Operation.txt'


The windscreen circuit uses two fuses;

Fuse #3 15A is for the windshield motor and this fuse also supplies the power outlets.

Fuse #4 7.5A is for the windshield UP and DOWN relay coils and this fuse also supplies the horn.

You need to check BOTH fuses #3 & #4 as the windshield will not work if any of these fuses are blown.

The 12v power to the windscreen motor is reversed by the UP/DOWN relays depending on whether the motor is
required to Raise or Lower the screen i.e the motor is reversible - you can connect 12v to it and it will turn one way,
reverse the voltage and it will turn the other way.
________________________


R1100RT Windscreen Operation.txt Issue: 12/08/2018

Author: Cedric Mungall (Galactic Greyhound ([BMRC])
Date: 20/06/2017
Ref: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25338&p=171533#p171533

See also file: 'Windscreen Electrics.txt'.


Windscreen problems can be a corrosion problem on the relay sockets themselves, faulty relay/s, the Screen Limit Switches (LS) or associated connectors in the Screen circuit.
The two Windscreen Raise/Lower relays are under the dash Speedo and Tacho Instrument Cluster which needs to be removed to access them. The Nose Fairing does NOT need to be removed.
There is also a large White electrical connector used for commoning the Windscreen wiring on the opposite side to the lower / raise relays. The connector halves can come loose and cause Windscreen problems (see Ref: in header above).

See the link below to a PDF Ladder Type Wiring Diagram by Doug Raymond for the R1100RT and download the R1100RT diagram.
Look at the bottom of Page 3 of 3 for the Screen circuit wiring:
http://www.mac-pac.org/tech/electrical-diagrams/

The 12v power to the windscreen motor is reversed by the UP/DOWN relays depending on whether the motor is
required to Raise or Lower the screen i.e. the motor is reversible - you can connect 12v to it and it will turn one way,
reverse the voltage and it will turn the other way.

Look at Doug's Wiring Diagram for the Screen circuit on Page 3 - you will note that the that there are two Changeover contacts marked 'UP LS' and 'Down LS'.

The LS are 'Limit Switches' with changeover contacts.
These cut the power to the Raise/Lower Relay coils when the screen reaches its Raise or Lower limit.
Both LS sit in the Normally Closed (NC) position until the Screen reaches the appropriate Limit Switch (LS) which then causes the Normally Closed contact to open and break the circuit.



HOW IT WORKS:

There are TWO power circuits involved in the Screen operation.
The two Screen Lower/Raise Relays are supplied with +12v via the Load Relief Relay (which operates at Ignition 'On') and Fuse #4 [F4 7.5 Amp] and the Lower/Raise Switch on the LH Handlebar Switchset.
The Screen Motor is suppled with +12v via Fuse #3 (F3 15 Amp) which is permanently live.

Follow this through on the diagram - note that there are two circuits in play here, the Raise/Lower Relay circuits with their Limit Switches and the Motor circuit controlled by which Raise/Lower relay is operated.

RELAY Operation - RAISING the Screen:
1. If the Screen is Lowered, the Up/Down Button operates the RAISE Relay coil by applying +12v from Fuse #4 (Green/Brown wire), via the Up/Down Button terminal #3 (Grey/Yellow wire) and the Raise Relay socket pin #3.

2. The Raise Relay coil then operates to earth via Raise Relay socket pin #5, the UP LS Normally Closed contact, connector pin #5, Raise/Lower Relay sockets connector pins #4 & #9, OE connector pin #2 to earth.

MOTOR Operation - RAISING the Screen:
3. When the Raise Relay operates, its Changeover (C/O) contact then connects +12v from Fuse #3 (Red/White wire) to the Raise Relay socket pin #2, to the Raise Relay socket pin #1 to the top side of the Motor.

4. The Motor operates which raises the screen until part of the mechanism touches the UP LS where it CHANGES the UP LS Normally Closed (NC) contact to the Normally Open (NO) position.
This BREAKS the circuit for the Motor causing it to stop which stops the Screen from Raising any further even if the Up/Down Button is kept pressed in the Up position.

5. Note that the bottom side of the Motor is connected to earth via the LOWER Relay socket pin#6, the Normally Closed Lower Relay contact, the Lower Relay socket pin #9, the Brown wire to earth on the OE Connector pin #2.


RELAY Operation - LOWERING the Screen:
6. If the Screen is Raised, the Up/Down Button operates the LOWER Relay coil by applying +12v from Fuse #4 (Green/Brown wire), via the Up/Down Button terminal #1 (Blue/Yellow wire) and the Lower Relay socket pin #10.

7. The Lower Relay coil then operates to earth via Lower Relay socket pin #8, the DOWN LS Normally Closed contact, connector pin #5, Raise/Lower Relay sockets connector pins #4 & #9, OE connector pin #2 to earth.

MOTOR Operation - LOWERING the Screen:
3. When the Lower Relay operates, its Changeover (C/O) contact then connects +12v from Fuse #3 (Red/White wire) to the Lower Relay socket pin #7, to the Lower Relay socket pin #6 to the Bottom side of the Motor.

4. The Motor operates which lowers the screen until part of the mechanism touches the DN LS where it CHANGES the DN LS Normally Closed (NC) contact to the Normally Open (NO) position.
This BREAKS the circuit for the Motor causing it to stop which stops the Screen from Lowering any further even if the Up/Down Button is kept pressed in the Down position.

5. Note that the Top side of the Motor is connected to earth via the RAISE Relay socket pin #1, the Normally Closed Raise Relay contact, the Raise Relay socket pin #4, the Brown wire to earth on the OE Connector pin #2.


TESTING

I would suggest that testing is done from the Raise/Lower Relay sockets if you can access and identify the socket pin numbers (#).
You therefore need to get access to the Raise/Lower relays by removing the black inner dash trim panel after removing the 12 screws around its outer edge AND the two screws at the middle outer near top of the Nose Cone under the screen.
Disconnect the wires going to the dash switches and the Power Socket after noting what goes where. Take off the trim panel. Remove the Instrument Cluster to access the relays underneath.
The Raise/Lower Relays should be removed for the testing which will allow you to Raise/Lower the Screen from the relay sockets.
The Raise/Lower Relay SOCKET positions (NOT the relays!) should be marked with a Marker Pen to make it easier to identify which socket is which i.e. UP/DOWN.
The wire colours can be used to identify the sockets and the pins.
There is also a large White electrical connector used for commoning the Windscreen wiring on the opposite side to the lower / raise relays. The connector halves can come loose and cause Windscreen problems (see Ref: in header above).
Some spare fuses for Fuses #3 and #4 are advisable!

Screen fully DOWN - to RAISE Screen

1. Jumper Raise Relay socket pin #2 (Fuse #3, +12v, Red/White wire) to pin #3.
2. The Raise Relay coil should operate and the Screen should RAISE. You should be able to 'feel/hear' the relay operate.
3. Use a Test Lamp (or a Voltmeter) and probe for +12v on Raise Relay socket pin #3 WHILE the Screen UP Button is operated - +12v should be present.

Screen fully UP - to LOWER Screen

1. Jumper Lower Relay socket pin #7 (Fuse #3, +12v, Red/White wire) to pin #10.
2. The Lower Relay coil should operate and the Screen should Lower. You should be able to 'feel/hear' the relay operate.
3. Use a Test Lamp (or a Voltmeter) and probe for +12v on Lower Relay socket pin #10 WHILE the Screen DOWN Button is operated - +12v should be present.


_________
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

davidhassall
Forum User
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:03 pm
Country of Residence: United Kingdom

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby davidhassall » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 am

Many thanks for all replies, hopefully sort it out over bank holiday
David

Boxer11002198
Forum User
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:24 am
Country of Residence: Wales

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby Boxer11002198 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:47 am

Galactic Greyhound . Could I request you read my recent post re my oil pressure light . You may have knowledge to pass on that others may not possess? Thanks Chris.
R1100RT 1996 19000miles Fom new at purchase .Now 24000 @9 th July.
Triumph Sprint ST 2001 Sold
BMW K1100RS 1995 Sold
Triumph Bonneville T140v 1973 Wish I had never Sold it !!!

User avatar
Galactic Greyhound
Moderator
Posts: 8750
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:26 pm
Country of Residence: Scotland
Location: Dumfries

Re: Windscreen motor relay

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:59 am

Galactic Greyhound . Could I request you read my recent post re my oil pressure light . You may have knowledge to pass on that others may not possess? Thanks Chris.

Hi Chris,

I have commented in your Oil Pressure Light thread.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!


Return to “Oilhead (R1100/1150/Cruiser) Q&A's”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: timtheyottie and 3 guests