1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

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1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:28 pm

Evenin' all,

At the risk of initiating a storm of conflicting opinions...I wondered what the feeling was regarding the 1100R against the 1150R. I had originally thought on selling/trading the R80 G/S with a view to getting a 1150R for a wee tour to Europe. However, the 1100R's are more affordable, it would seem, and I could trade/sell the F650 GS to get my grubby paws on one; and of course, I would still have the R80 G/S to tinker with (in the forlorn hope of riding on the road sometime soon-ish)

Thus, I would like some informed opinions upon the pro's and con's of each, if that can be done without inciting a stramash!

Thanks guys

Ride safe

Doug

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:21 pm

Hi Doug,

The R1100 Series have ABS2 which is a very robust and reliable ABS system albeit that it is sensitive to low voltage from an aging battery causing it to fail to set when starting.
The ABS2 system merely sits on top of a standard hydraulic braking system and only operates should an ABS event occur.
Should the system ever fail when riding, normal braking is retained with only the ABS function itself being lost.

The R1150 Series mainly used the Integral ABS system (iABS-1 sometimes called ABS3) although ABS2 was used in some cases.
The iABS-1 system is an electric servo system which provides greater braking power.
It can be recognised by a 'whining' sound from the electric pump when the brakes are operated.
However, the system is notoriously unreliable due to ABS Pump Module failures causing, not just a loss of the ABS function, but with a serious loss of braking power as well (called 'Residual Braking').
This system is often subjected to a 'Servectomy' (complete removal of the servo ABS function) if the Pump module fails due to the high cost of repair.
The 'Servectomy' provides for normal hydraulic brake operation minus the ABS function.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:21 pm

Hi Doug, ...however, the system is notoriously unreliable due to ABS Pump Module failures causing, not just a loss of the ABS function, but with a serious loss of braking power as well (called 'Residual Braking').
This system is often subjected to a 'Servectomy' (complete removal of the servo ABS function) if the Pump module fails due to the high cost of repair.
The 'Servectomy' provides for normal hydraulic brake operation minus the ABS function.
Phew...that in itself is food for thought, although I have seen a few 1150s advertised as non- ABS. I like the idea of ABS though, and had I not had ABS on the F650, the wee incident that I had a few weeks back could have turned nasty.
The 1100 seems to have less electronic gadgetry to go wrong and that can't be a bad thing, to my Luddite mind.
I was just interested in hearing opinions from those in the know, having not been much involved with the modern boxers at all Thanks for that GG. Perhaps I'll sell the F650 come spring and keep my eyes open for a nice boxer
DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:14 pm

....although I have seen a few 1150s advertised as non- ABS.....,

That would indicate to me that the bike has likely had a 'Servectomy' done to it and the factory-fitted iABS-1 has been removed thus modifying the bike to having a standard hydraulic braking system.

It has been said by many R1150 owners who have had the Servectomy done, that they much prefer the standard hydraulic braking to that when their iABS-1 system was working properly i.e. the front/rear brakes are no longer linked, there is no servo 'snatching' of the front brake when manoevering at slow speed risking the bike being dropped, the brakes are smoother and the whole braking system is now much easier to maintain....but you no longer have the 'safety' of an ABS system.

I think I am correct in saying that an R1100 is much the same in performance (including braking) as an R1150 that has had a Servectomy done to it.

The R1150 Series also changed from Single-Spark to Twin-Spark shortly after it was introduced whereas the R1100 Series has always been Single-Spark.
The R1150 Twin-Spark gives cleaner emissions and maybe a little extra power at the cost of a more complex Ignition system.

Also, the R1150 Series are mostly fitted with Catalytic Converters and a later issue Engine Control Unit (Bosch Motronic MA2.4) than the R1100 Series (Bosch Motronic MA2.2).

The MA2.4 Engine Control Unit (ECU) has self-learning capabilities and gives a lot more diagnostic information than the earlier MA2.2 unit as fitted to the non-catalytic R1100 Series.

This increased diagnostic information can best be exploited if a DIY owner purchases the Hexcode GS-911 Diagnostic Tool which plugs into the ECU Diagnostic Socket under the pillion seat.

It is not worthwhile purchasing the GS-911 for the R1100 because of the very limited diagnostic info given by the earlier MA2.2 ECU.
This limited info (Fault Codes) can best be read by using the much cheaper Fault Code Reader sold by Motobins.

The R1150 Series have also appeared to have more problems than the R1100 Series with stripped splines on the Gearbox Input Shaft and the Clutch Plate.
There are various theories about on why this problem occurred.

The R1100 Series also has a simple cable-operated Clutch unlike the hydraulic slave cylinder operation on the R1150 which is difficult to access if/when it leaks.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby george baker » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:11 am

Hi
I know a man who races off road bike and he deliberately picked the 1100 over the 1150 due to it's relative simplicity. Not sue why, maybe so he can fix it in a forest.

There are 3? gearboxes over the 1100/1150 range iirc, with I guess different characteristics.

I have heard reports of the 1100 being jerky at low speeds, but also been told it can be cured by careful balancing of the fuel bodies

Keep me in mind when you decide to sell the F650,

George
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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:46 am

Hi
I know a man who races off road bike and he deliberately picked the 1100 over the 1150 due to it's relative simplicity. Not sue why, maybe so he can fix it in a forest.

There are 3? gearboxes over the 1100/1150 range iirc, with I guess different characteristics.

I have heard reports of the 1100 being jerky at low speeds, but also been told it can be cured by careful balancing of the fuel bodies

Keep me in mind when you decide to sell the F650,

George
And that just makes my mind my mind up for me...I'll send you off a PM, George, and we can come to some arrangement re the F650, I'm sure

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:54 am

....although I have seen a few 1150s advertised as non- ABS.....,

That would indicate to me that the bike has likely had a 'Servectomy' done to it and the factory-fitted iABS-1 has been removed thus modifying the bike to having a standard hydraulic braking system.

It has been said by many R1150 owners who have had the Servectomy done, that they much prefer the standard hydraulic braking to that when their iABS-1 system was working properly i.e. the front/rear brakes are no longer linked, there is no servo 'snatching' of the front brake when manoevering at slow speed risking the bike being dropped, the brakes are smoother and the whole braking system is now much easier to maintain....but you no longer have the 'safety' of an ABS system.

I think I am correct in saying that an R1100 is much the same in performance (including braking) as an R1150 that has had a Servectomy done to it.

The R1150 Series also changed from Single-Spark to Twin-Spark shortly after it was introduced whereas the R1100 Series has always been Single-Spark.
The R1150 Twin-Spark gives cleaner emissions and maybe a little extra power at the cost of a more complex Ignition system.

Also, the R1150 Series are mostly fitted with Catalytic Converters and a later issue Engine Control Unit (Bosch Motronic MA2.4) than the R1100 Series (Bosch Motronic MA2.2).

The MA2.4 Engine Control Unit (ECU) has self-learning capabilities and gives a lot more diagnostic information than the earlier MA2.2 unit as fitted to the non-catalytic R1100 Series.

This increased diagnostic information can best be exploited if a DIY owner purchases the Hexcode GS-911 Diagnostic Tool which plugs into the ECU Diagnostic Socket under the pillion seat.

It is not worthwhile purchasing the GS-911 for the R1100 because of the very limited diagnostic info given by the earlier MA2.2 ECU.
This limited info (Fault Codes) can best be read by using the much cheaper Fault Code Reader sold by Motobins.

The R1150 Series have also appeared to have more problems than the R1100 Series with stripped splines on the Gearbox Input Shaft and the Clutch Plate.
There are various theories about on why this problem occurred.

The R1100 Series also has a simple cable-operated Clutch unlike the hydraulic slave cylinder operation on the R1150 which is difficult to access if/when it leaks.
A very comprehensive and helpful answer, GG, and one that has me leaning towards the R1100R now, for sure. Seems the 1150 would be the better option for me, who ain't too technically-minded although I aim to DIY service bod. And of course I can retain the R80.

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:57 pm

Hi again @Galactic Greyhound....I don’t suppose the later Bosch unit, the M2.4 ECU could be retrofitted to the R1100...?

I am looking at a R1100R for sale. Should it have a steering damper as OEM?

Might have to part with th old G/S too....ny sensible offer considered

Ride safe

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:07 pm

....I don’t suppose the later Bosch unit, the M2.4 ECU could be retrofitted to the R1100...?...……..

Hi DM,

I am not able to comment definitively on that and I have not heard of it being done.

However, here's some thoughts about it:

I think that the early R1150's (pre Dec 2002) were single spark and used the same MA2.2 ECU as the R1100 and that the MA2.4 ECU was only used for the later R1150 Twin Spark models - I could be wrong about this though.

The later MA2.4 ECU is for the Twin-Spark 1150 engine and this used a hybrid Ignition system comprising of a dual output HT Coil in wasted spark mode for the two Secondary plugs and two possibly separately-fired Stick Coils for the two Primary plugs.
The reason for this setup appears to be for better emissions control and that the Secondary plugs were fired later than the Primary plugs for clean-up before the exhaust gases entered the Catalytic Converter.

There would therefore likely be an Ignition timing anomaly if an MA2.4 ECU was fitted to a single plugged R1100 using only the ECU Secondary plug output.

There may also be fuel injection programming issues when using the MA2.4 ECU on the smaller capacity engine.

Something might be made to work with experiment, some rewiring and a good workshop with a dyno but I can't see the value of doing this unless one was desperate to get the better diagnostics capability - it would be cheaper and quicker to go for an R1150 Twin Spark than modify a bike so that it no longer meets its Type Approval.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:21 am

You’re the font of knowledge on things BMW, GG! It was just a passing thought, but sounds like too much hassle; the reason I’m looking at R1100’s is because of their comparative simplicity, so no point in messing it about.

Cheers again

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:58 am

No great knowledge there DM, lots of guys here with more knowledge of BM's than me - just my thoughts after looking at the R1100/R1150 Wiring Diagrams and the BM Bikes BMW Model Specs. :smile:

Here is Boxerman's (rip) 'BM Bikes' site link which you can also enter direct from the forum header:
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/information.htm

Personally, and I am biased because I ride one, I think that if you want an Oilhead then the R1100 is the best choice for reliability.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:51 am

Yup...already decided on the 1100R, GG, and considering part-exchanging the R80 G/S, unless I get the F650 sold in time

Ride safe

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:49 pm

OK - when looking for an R1100 here are some things to check out with the seller:

1. The Hall Effect Sender (HES) or Ignition Trigger Unit lasts for approx 50,000 miles before wiring deterioration in its connector cable causes the unit to fail.
A new unit costs around £160 and is straightforward to replace DIY in about a day.

The HES wiring fails UNDER the connector cable outer sheathing because its PVC insulation crumbles away with age and heat causing shorting especially in wet conditions.
It often starts to work again after drying out for an hour or more usually sufficiently enough to get you home (so don't flatten the Battery with repeated early restart attempts!).

The faulty wiring in the harness can be replaced if you are handy electrically.

Ask the seller if the HES has been replaced and at what mileage.


2. ABS2 Initial Test - Check that when the Ignition is first switched ON (engine not started), that the two ABS lights on the dash flash TOGETHER (not Alternately, which is a fault condition).
This completes the ABS Controller's 'Initial Test' of the ABS system.

Now start the engine - the ABS lights should remain flashing TOGETHER.
If they change to flashing ALTERNATELY then this is a fault likely caused by low Battery voltage from an aged Battery.
The ABS2 system is prone to this and does not like aged Batteries which drop their voltage too much when starting.

ABS2 Final Test - Now, with the ABS lights flashing TOGETHER after starting the engine (Normal operation), slowly ride off and observe that the two ABS lights extinguish at about 5 mph accompanied by a 'chirp-chirp' sound as the ABS Modulator is tested by the ABS Controller.
This completes the ABS Controller's 'Final Test' of the ABS system.
The ABS is now 'SET' and will activate should an ABS event occur.


3. If it is a private sale and the seller has done his own DIY maintenance, ask if he has a workshop manual included in the sale.


4. Everything else to be checked is pretty much as for any other bike.

Happy riding! :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Thank you, GG, I really appreciate the tips there. There is a nice one on EBay, and the fella seemed interested in a part trade for the G/S ( I know.... I probably WILL end up regretting it!)

R80 G/S and F650 GS should make their appearance in the bikes for sale section very soon

Ride safe

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby airhead_irl » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:29 am

I'm not sure if it has been pointed out but the riding position of 1100 vs 1150 is pretty different too. The R1100R has similar ergo's to the RT of that era and the R1150R has a more "sporty" slant. With respect to DIY maintenance, I do not think the 1150 series is anymore complicated than the earlier 1100 series. Also, I believe the 1100 series potentially had gearbox issue up to, and including, 1997. I think from '98 on this was sorted. I would think a lot of it comes down to personal preference when all is said and done. Personally, I have owned a '98 R1100RT and a '99 R1150GS and the big advantage of the 1150, for me, was the six speed gearbox which I found to be better on motorways and high-cruising-speed roads type roads. I also preferred the switch gear on the 1150 series bikes. The R1100R has an 18" rear wheel which might have less tyre choice over the 17" item on the R1150R. Having said that, I would think the R1100R would be a fine choice of bike. Interestingly, there is one for sale local to me here in Ireland with only 2 kms on the odometer - it is an import from Japan but it is very expensive:

https://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for- ... m/23310217

Here's another from the same vendor:

https://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for- ... t/23301193

The best of luck with which ever you chose !

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:12 pm

Thanks Airhead

The handlebars were the least favourable point of 1100R. With the 1150’s seemingly commanding a higher price for a decent one, I think I’ll have to go with the1100r, if I can find a good one. The issue for me being that, once the F650 and R80 G/S are sold and I have a decent boxer.....I need money for a 4-6 week trip to the continent...or further. Ain’t ridden a bike over there yet and, at my age, it’s a kinda bucket-list trip...or the first of a few. Kinda got off-topic now, so here is what I have been looking at, but the fella didn’t offer what I felt the R80 G/S was worth:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233362865777 ... noapp=true

Hopefully I’ll get a better offer on a private sale

Cheers

DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby airhead_irl » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:30 pm

The bike you are looking at above looks quite decent, according to the photos. Nice colour too. Some flaky paint on the engine and timing cover but not the end of the world. All is short for your Euro trip are the BMW System pannier cases ! They truly are great all-rounder bikes.
I have the decendant of that bike.....

Image

Image

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:46 pm

Hi Airhead...nice bike🙂 The seller offered me matching side cases and agreed to code them to the bike. Might be worth it, but have never before bought a bike unseen and unridden...and that is a bit of a worry
DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby george baker » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:44 am

Hi
Might be worth it, but have never before bought a bike unseen and unridden...and that is a bit of a worry
Yes I know how you feel, but there is a member on here who bought a bike just on pictures and reviews and is happy-- in fact he has done it twice-- it went well both times.

I still fancy a go on a Himalayan, I just need to find the time on what I hope will be a sunny day. I even tried to hire one for a day, but the company stopped doing hires

BTW I got told the other day that 1150s are larger and heavier than 1100s due to enlarged tank, rear subframe, maybe seat and bars as well

George
Member 21, R100R, and an under used K75

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby P-K » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:17 am

Lovely topic, but wasn't really anything to do with Club Membership, so I've put it where it belongs.
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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby andys » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:30 pm

My BMW dealer had a test ride event shortly after the oil head R's came out.
They ran it from a pub car park and enlisted the IAM to accompany us in groups.
One of them nearly ran one of my friends off the road with an outrageously dangerous overtake but that's another story.
We tried both the 1100 and 850.
Strangely, all of us agreed that the 850 was the most fun and engaging bike out of the two.

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:32 pm

My BMW dealer had a test ride event shortly after the oil head R's came out.
They ran it from a pub car park and enlisted the IAM to accompany us in groups.
One of them nearly ran one of my friends off the road with an outrageously dangerous overtake but that's another story.
We tried both the 1100 and 850.
Strangely, all of us agreed that the 850 was the most fun and engaging bike out of the two.
That is interesting re the 850/1100. There is a member in here selling one, and if I’dany firm offer for the two bikes I've advertised, I might have bought it
DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby DingusMagee » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:33 pm

Lovely topic, but wasn't really anything to do with Club Membership, so I've put it where it belongs.
Whoops, sorree
DM

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:08 pm

.....That is interesting re the 850/1100. There is a member in here selling one, and if I’dany firm offer for the two bikes I've advertised, I might have bought it

I think that the R850 is fitted with the later 'intelligent' MA2.4 ECU, Catalytic Converter and the iABS-1 ABS system like the later R1150's:

http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R850R.htm
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 1100R cf 1150R - Thoughts..?

Postby Froglodyte » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:30 pm

Maybe the later ones, Ced. Mine has no cat, No abs. Therefore, no problems! I have ridden the 1100 and it seems no faster than my 850. In fact, if anything it revs better.


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