I got myself a "bike"

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Mjolinor
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:45 pm

Apparently pointless question but how much fuel do I need in to fill over the centre of the tank. I have a gallon, do I need more?

I want to put a minimum amount in as I am sure I will need to remove it at some point in the next few days and the less it weighs the easier it is to handle..

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:27 am

I don't know really, I'd think a gallon would do it... any particular reason?

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:49 am

Just so it isn't heavy when I take it off. I struggle enough with it empty.

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby CaptAirhead » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:36 am

I put a gallon in my 'empty' tank and was disappointed with the flow ( dribble) from one side so I sloshed it around a bit till it equalised. Half a gallon a side isn't a lot of 'head' but should be enough to fill the float chambers and try for a start so long as there isn't any restriction in the fuel lines or petcocks.
I'll be doing the same thing again shortly with my new tank and trying for a restart after 12 years idle. A gallon should be enough to start up.
Ian.
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:01 am

Just so it isn't heavy when I take it off. I struggle enough with it empty.

Sorry, I should have been more explicit... any reason why it must be over the central hump?

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby vmx1200 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:16 am

Just for reference reserve is 3 litres / 0.66 Imp Gallon according to the owners handbook and on my bike that is good for at least 25 miles
1978 R100RS owned since 1981
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby CaptAirhead » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:51 am

" Sorry, I should have been more explicit... any reason why it must be over the central hump?"

Don't know about the OP but in my case it was curiosity. I wanted to see if the newly fitted petcocks delivered an even flow..they didn't so off they came for a good clean. The filters had got contaminated with the remnants of Petseal from my old tank. It didn't really matter about the petrol being even on both sides because of the cross over hose but it appeased my OCD.
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mike D » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:02 am

In a previous post it was stated
I am going to pipe one tap per carb, I assume that is right but if not it's good enough for me.
That would be a good reason to have fuel in both halves of the tank.

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:24 am

Transparent fuel pipe anyway so I can make sure both are flowing.

Insurance, 3 hours in and it's just the same headache that it is with a car, no sense to the prices anywhere.

Currently cheapest is £111 from Hastings Direct (TPF&T) and Adrian Flux / Bike sure (TP)

Is that reasonable, no no claims?

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby vmx1200 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm

I use Peter James, £89 fully comp agreed value of £4500 limited to 1500 mile pa, classic vehicle policy so doesn't have a NCB
1978 R100RS owned since 1981
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:29 pm

Tried Peter James, they won't insure me. Two reasons, long term diabetes and the the bike is kept in a locked shed, not a garage.

As far as I knew I thought that insurance companies were not allowed to discriminate as long as DVLA say it is OK to drive then medical is not allowed to make any difference. Regarding the locked shed versus garage that is just plain ludicrous. It would have been the same if I had said I keep it in the front room of my house and not the garage, they would still refuse.

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:08 pm

I have been with the Insurance Agent 'Devitt Insurance Services' a few years now and very pleased with them.

Expect a quote of £90 - £100 Fully Comp.

http://www.devittinsurance.com
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:20 pm

I have been with the Insurance Agent 'Devitt Insurance Services' a few years now and very pleased with them.

Expect a quote of £90 - £100 Fully Comp.

http://www.devittinsurance.com
Expected £100 as suggested, got £309.08. Not the most expensive quote but certainly too much. :)

Thanks but no thanks. :)

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:39 pm

I am just about to start this, or not. :)

If you want to watch then

http://51.6.216.69/

for as long as the IP doesn't change. Username: mjolinor no password

If it works then I expect lots of congratulations, flowers, bags of toffee etc etc. If it doesn't then sympathy please. :)

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:49 pm

Well that was easy. Started first crank.

Still no oil pressure though. Generator works, rev counter works but without oil pressure that doesn't mean much.

I think I will try pressurising through the oil pressure hole.

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby george baker » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:01 pm

Hi
good news

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:18 pm

I have just re-read the pages linked earlier explaining the ins and outs of the different oil filter housings / coolers and so on. Mine has the flat cover and gasket that is just that, it does not hold the filter in. You get access to that once the cover is removed.

I cannot see how anything wrong in there will result in lost oil pressure, even without a filter in and all the holding nuts / screws it would still develop pressure.

Is that correct?

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby CaptAirhead » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:33 pm

My understanding is that this is a critical area and that incorrect assembly can cause severe problems. Read up on the 2000 dollar 'O' ring.

You should have a metal shim and a white O ring fitted with the shim nearest the filter. Depending on clearance which must be measured, the gasket may or may not be required. You should read Snowbum's comments on this subject. I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell you why it is critical, I just follow instructions from them ' what knows better' !
Ian.
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:21 pm

My understanding is that this is a critical area and that incorrect assembly can cause severe problems. Read up on the 2000 dollar 'O' ring.

You should have a metal shim and a white O ring fitted with the shim nearest the filter. Depending on clearance which must be measured, the gasket may or may not be required. You should read Snowbum's comments on this subject. I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell you why it is critical, I just follow instructions from them ' what knows better' !
Ian.
Mine is too old for such things. The early one (1970 engine) didn't have an 'O' ring as far as I read anyway.

I have removed the sump just to recheck the pickup and all is fine there. I had checked it already but maybe when I am older I will trust myself to have done the things I think I have done but of late I do seem to be getting worse at that at least according to my wife.

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:54 pm

From Anton Largiader's article:
http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/

"Flat cover - /5 and /6

Flat cover
This system is specific to the 1970 through 1976 models. The cover is truly flat and uses a cover gasket to seal the crankcase. Underneath the flat cover is another cover which seals the filter canister itself, and is held on by a central bolt. This design uses the short oil filter, and does not use the white O-ring
."

If the Oil Filter or Covers (2 of) or Seal are of the incorrect type or fitted incorrectly, then the pressurised oil in the Filter Chamber will flow straight back into the sump resulting in no oil pressure.

You need to check that the filter is fully sealed within the canister by the INNER Cover and that it cannot leak around the open top of the canister back into the sump.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:14 pm

From Anton Largiader's article:
http://www.largiader.com/tech/filters/

"Flat cover - /5 and /6

Flat cover
This system is specific to the 1970 through 1976 models. The cover is truly flat and uses a cover gasket to seal the crankcase. Underneath the flat cover is another cover which seals the filter canister itself, and is held on by a central bolt. This design uses the short oil filter, and does not use the white O-ring
."

If the Oil Filter or Covers (2 of) or Seal are of the incorrect type or fitted incorrectly, then the pressurised oil in the Filter Chamber will flow straight back into the sump resulting in no oil pressure.

You need to check that the filter is fully sealed within the canister by the INNER Cover and that it cannot leak around the open top of the canister back into the sump.
Right, that's next then. If that fails it's timing case off and check the relief valve I think unless someone has something else to suggest.

What is "short"?

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:51 pm

This is what I have.

When I removed the cover no oil came out. When I removed the centre bolt and filter holder then oil came out of the sump.
filter.jpg
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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:00 pm

119 = short
134 = long

Which doesn't help a lot. My filters are 119 for the filter and including the rubber on each end they are 134. :groan:

The number on the box matches the 119 mm number, 11 42 1 337 198

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:22 pm

OK - I haven't worked on the older /5 & /6 filter chambers so no experience of them but here are some comments:

That Inner Cover with the central bolt should seal the Filter Chamber CANISTER to keep the pressurised oil inside the canister and prevent it escaping into the sump.
Should there be a sealing ring between the Inner Cover and where it meets the Canister metal edge or is it metal to metal?

When fitting the filter, check that there is not an old black seal ring at the bottom of the Canister oil outlet.
I believe that with some early filters the black end seals were loose.
This should not cause Canister pressure leakage but will affect the fit of the filter and may cause a blockage if it breaks up.

You need to check that the Inner Cover is actually sealing the Canister end.
If it is not sealing then the oil pressure will be low as the pressurised oil in the filter chamber will flow back into the sump.
In case the filter is affecting the fitment of the Inner Cover over the Canister, run the engine with the filter removed and see if there is any pressure.

It would be useful to know what the oil pressure is inside the Canister.
If a shell bearing has spun and blocked a feed to the oil galleries then the Canister pressure should be high.
If the High Pressure Relief Valve is open then the Canister Pressure will be low.
I can't see how to measure that without modifying the Inner Cover for an Oil Pressure Gauge port.
Maybe a modified bolt could allow this.

What does the Inner Cover central bolt screw into - can you post a pic of this?
Are the threads OK so the Inner Cover is not lifting off under oil pressure?
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: I got myself a "bike"

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:45 pm

All threads are good. I was wondering the same as you about a seal ring on the filter holder but I can find nothing to say there should be. I reckon that I will put it together without a filter and measure how far down the top of the bolt head is then fit the filter and measure again. I may even try it without a filter in, I think that should remove the potential problem of filter too long or some other reason why the filter may be leaking back into the sump. Having said all that I think that oil coming out of the sump plug when I remove the filter holder is an indication that it was sealed properly. I did have a look down the hole and couldn't see anything amiss but since then I have had a few google hits about old seals in the bottom so a closer look tomorrow with my endoscope I think. I'll take a picture or two while in there if I can.

Raining now so all off until tomorrow when there will be another exciting instalment of this saga.


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