BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

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Mjolinor
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:49 pm

You need to make sure that the big end shells stay in the con rod when you remove it, if they are stuck to the crank then goa nd buy a bottle of whisky and lock the garage up.
Look at the old shell, are there signs of "pickup" where the white metal has melted. If so make sure none is stuck on the crank.
Clean the crank journal and make sure it is smooth, no ridges running round the crank.
Measure the crank diameter with a digital caliper, that is about all you can get in there without removing the crank. You need to measure it at several places around so turning the engine is necessary to get several good measurements.
Compare those dimensions to the data presented here: https://w6rec.com/bmw-motorcycle-engine ... er-models/

With a failure like this you also need to check crank end float and main bearings, you can get a rough idea from inside the timing cover with a DTI and magnetic base.

That's a start, lots more to come as you get further in there.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby snowy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:57 pm

That's is horrendous amount of play in the big end. Strip barrels and pistons off as 1 lump, then using the correct tool remove both conrods, you will I am sure find that the white metal, or what ever they use, gone. thoroughly clean crank and in the 1st instance a good visual check of the crank, use a mic if you have one, if you are in luck ( as I was once) the crank is good, remove bearings from conrods and CHECK the colour coding on the old bearings, plenty of oil when you reassemble, NEW conrod bolts ( they are use only once stretchy types) and finish the rebuild.
Good luck.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby keiththeoutfitter1 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:43 pm

Have the big-end bolts come loose? If so, the hammering may have made the big-end cap oval.
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:31 am

When you first removed the rocker cover how much oil came out?
A pool from each side... small pool - can see Oil at the Rockers..
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:33 am

That's is horrendous amount of play in the big end. Strip barrels and pistons off as 1 lump, then using the correct tool remove both conrods, you will I am sure find that the white metal, or what ever they use, gone. thoroughly clean crank and in the 1st instance a good visual check of the crank, use a mic if you have one, if you are in luck ( as I was once) the crank is good, remove bearings from conrods and CHECK the colour coding on the old bearings, plenty of oil when you reassemble, NEW conrod bolts ( they are use only once stretchy types) and finish the rebuild.
Good luck.
Thanks Snowy, that's the sort of guidance I was looking for... I've ordered the 10mm 20 spline tool last night to undo conrods.
It's a massive amount of play, but only on one side... I can also feel a sliver of metal at the side of the Conrod - presumably chewed up Bearing...

Really not into an Engine out, new Crank situation...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:34 am

Have the big-end bolts come loose? If so, the hammering may have made the big-end cap oval.
Not sure yet- spline Key/Tool on its way, stoppped until I can get the big end bolts off.
Will take Pistons off later though... thanks...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby george baker » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 am

Hi
Were in Lancashire are you?

Are you going to rebuild it yourself or will you be seeking a professional?

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:36 am

You need to make sure that the big end shells stay in the con rod when you remove it, if they are stuck to the crank then goa nd buy a bottle of whisky and lock the garage up.
Look at the old shell, are there signs of "pickup" where the white metal has melted. If so make sure none is stuck on the crank.
Clean the crank journal and make sure it is smooth, no ridges running round the crank.
Measure the crank diameter with a digital caliper, that is about all you can get in there without removing the crank. You need to measure it at several places around so turning the engine is necessary to get several good measurements.
Compare those dimensions to the data presented here: https://w6rec.com/bmw-motorcycle-engine ... er-models/

With a failure like this you also need to check crank end float and main bearings, you can get a rough idea from inside the timing cover with a DTI and magnetic base.

That's a start, lots more to come as you get further in there.
Thanks MJ - good advice... like the whisky advice... don't really fancy the whole Crank replacement thing... lifes too short and all that - happy to replace bearings and snug it all up... It's only play on the Right side which is weird - why would only one go?

Thanks re specs - and guidance think I've got a mini caliper so that'll help... just ordered the Tool for conrod bolt removal... not in my toolkit!
Stick with me ... thanks again.
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby george baker » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 am

Hi
I've got a mini caliper
make sure it is reading right, I had one that was consistent but wrong, I was happy to use it, but "the boss" threw it away

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:02 am

Here is a guess. Are you in Southport? There were only three BMWs on Sunday, I know two and the third was from Southport. :)

MereBrow on Sunday auto jumble. I will be going and probably have the spline tool if you need to borrow it.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby george baker » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 am

Hi
looks like rain, what time are you going to be there Mjolinor?
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 am

Usually early ish, 9 - 9:30 that is if I don't get lost again finding it. :)

Probably in my Smart car, not bike weather I don't think.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:48 pm

Hi
I've got a mini caliper
make sure it is reading right, I had one that was consistent but wrong, I was happy to use it, but "the boss" threw it away

George
Thanks George it seems ok - Digital thing... looking at condition first, should tell me whether it's feasable...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm

Here is a guess. Are you in Southport? There were only three BMWs on Sunday, I know two and the third was from Southport. :)

MereBrow on Sunday auto jumble. I will be going and probably have the spline tool if you need to borrow it.
Hey - Are you referring to the DGR Ride... I'm in Ormskirk... near Southport.
Where's MereBrow?

I've ordered Spline tool set - £6 online for a set, should be here by Saturday...
Pistons off later...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:12 pm

Here is a guess. Are you in Southport? There were only three BMWs on Sunday, I know two and the third was from Southport. :)

MereBrow on Sunday auto jumble. I will be going and probably have the spline tool if you need to borrow it.
Hey - Are you referring to the DGR Ride... I'm in Ormskirk... near Southport.
Where's MereBrow?

I've ordered Spline tool set - £6 online for a set, should be here by Saturday...
Pistons off later...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mere+ ... d-2.889745

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby windmill john » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:51 pm

Probably in my Smart car, not bike weather I don't think.


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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:25 pm

:eek:

But true. I really need to invest in some riding gear. My fleece isn't cutting it and the T shirt weather seems to have left.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:35 pm

Just took pins out of Pistons and removed - play only on the right hand big end?

Plenty of Oil knocking around Crank and Pistons... here's hoping the crank is un affected...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 pm

Here is a guess. Are you in Southport? There were only three BMWs on Sunday, I know two and the third was from Southport. :)

MereBrow on Sunday auto jumble. I will be going and probably have the spline tool if you need to borrow it.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mere+ ... d-2.889745
Ah nice... you got a link to the event page?
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:38 pm

Hi
Were in Lancashire are you?

Are you going to rebuild it yourself or will you be seeking a professional?

George
Hey George, Ormskirk...

I'm happy to do Bearings/Big Ends if that is what it needs, thinking twice about Engine out and Crankshaft...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:11 pm

There is no need to remove the engine to take the crank out. That is one of the good things about these bikes.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:44 pm

There is no need to remove the engine to take the crank out. That is one of the good things about these bikes.
Oh nice... didn't realize... thought it had to come out, ala Haynes...
Just received Spline tool and cracked off the Conrod Bolts...

Right Hand Bearing Shot to pieces.
Left Hand Bearing All Good...

Maybe Oil starvation? What to check?
Pictures attached of Conrods and Crank - what say yee?
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby bluebossa2 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:46 pm

Crankshaft Shots...
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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby snowy » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:58 pm

Mmmm, that crank don't look happy at all, can you feel ridges on the journal, if so its a BIG job ahead of you, but, as it has been stated already not necessary an engine out job, flywheel, gearbox, clutch and drive train then all the front timing chain, cam shaft and followers etc.
check the condition of the main bearings and oil pump whilst it is all out.
good luck with that.

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Re: BMW R65 Head and Valves Hitting Piston - Valve Clearance?

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:22 pm

It looks to me as though the bearing has rotated in the con rod, difficult to be sure form the pictures. Is the tang on the bearing flattened thus allowing the bearing to rotate? If so you need a con rod given that fixing it is major work.

I fear you are going to have to regrind or replace that crank. You need to polish it, hopefully with some fine abrasive but whatever it takes to get it clean and then you have to measure it. Not hopeful at this end I don't think. To me the left one does not look good either.

If you start stripping then before you do, measure the crank end float just to see if it is OK. You may not use the information but if you do not measure it beforehand and need to know it later then you have to stick it all back in again.

Why? You need to solve that before anything else really. Drop the oil and take the sump off. Gearbox off, flywheel and clutch off then oil pump apart. Out of the blue like this I fear your oil pump may be knackered which may mean knackered crank cases if something has got in there, hopefully not. Could be the relief valve, in fact it could be a lot of things, all you can do is methodically remove each possibility.

This is reading like a Stephen King novel, horrendous.


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