'87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

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r75boxer
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:35 am

Took the R65 out for an hour ride this afternoon. Great little motorcycle. Reasonable pickup, great handling and now with lights!

WRT the R80RT, I've decided to keep it as an RT. As Rob indicated, the faring will come in handy when the weather turns south. Until then I'll ride the R65.

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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r75boxer
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:22 pm

Last night I had the R65 out for another run and all was good till my signals quit. The left ones stayed on when I signalled left while when signalling right the rear came on and nothing in the front. I changed the bulb and now the left works properly and the right 'blinks' at twice the normal speed and then stops. Any idea what might be going on? Is it the relay?

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby windmill john » Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:03 pm

I had this on my CB500T and it was just a slightly dirty connector to the rear indicator.
Separate all connectors, clean, protect and hopefully that’s all.

If not...... ROB....ROB.... :grin:


John
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Ari, my 500 Classic
Bumble, my 700 Transalp.
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:46 pm

Thanks John. So, I just went through the signal lights, bulbs etc and made sure they were clean and making good contact. Same result.

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Rob Frankhamr
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:13 pm

Insi
tinct say that this is going to be an earthing issue... but instinct doesn't always get it right. Can I just check understanding...

Before you changed the bulb, the left indicators came on and stayed on, the right rear came on and stayed on, the right front didn't work at all...

After the Front Right bulb was changed, the left indicators work OK but not the right. Tne right indicators both flash at twice the speed they should...

Questions:

1) What was the indicator repeater doing before you changed the bulb?

2) What is the indicator repeater doing now?

3) Is there any sign that any of the other bulbs is passing any current when the indicator lights are lit (i.e. other indicator bulbs, headlight bulbs, rear light bulbs, brake light bulbs.

4) Can you confirm that, when the right bulbs are flashing too fast, both front and rear are lighting up... (probably a silly question but it could be important).

As a first port of call, check continuity between the ground on each bulb holder and the negative battery terminal. (There should ideally be no resistance between the two).

Rob
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:47 pm

My responses are as follows:

Instinct say that this is going to be an earthing issue... but instinct doesn't always get it right. Can I just check understanding...

Before you changed the bulb, the left indicators came on and stayed on, the right rear came on and stayed on, the right front didn't work at all...

After the Front Right bulb was changed, the left indicators work OK but not the right. Tne right indicators both flash at twice the speed they should...Correct.

Questions:

1) What was the indicator repeater doing before you changed the bulb? As you indicated above.

2) What is the indicator repeater doing now? As above.

3) Is there any sign that any of the other bulbs is passing any current when the indicator lights are lit (i.e. other indicator bulbs, headlight bulbs, rear light bulbs, brake light bulbs.No, neither with the flasher on or off, both sides.

4) Can you confirm that, when the right bulbs are flashing too fast, both front and rear are lighting up... (probably a silly question but it could be important). Yes, both are keeping pace with one another.

As a first port of call, check continuity between the ground on each bulb holder and the negative battery terminal. (There should ideally be no resistance between the two). Ground on both back bulbs show 0.4 ohms and both front 0.2 ohm. I repeated this test several times and consistently got these readings save for once when the 'new bulb' on the front right gave me an array of readings. I may not have made good contact because when I repeated the test it showed 0.2 ohm.

Thanks Rob. You must think that the electricals on the R65 are being haunted by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. I know I do.

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby Mjolinor » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:59 pm

Does the behavior change when you apply the brake?

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:03 pm

No, it doesn't.

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby windmill john » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:08 am

As I mentioned above, being an R65, did you also inspect the multi plug from the back light cluster? It should be against the back mudguard under the seat-ish; although your issue sounds more to the front of the bike.
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Ari, my 500 Classic
Bumble, my 700 Transalp.
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Rob Frankhamr
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:53 am

OK,

One further test to confirm that the earths are good... With the indicators switched on, check the voltage between the negative pole of the battery and the various bulb grounds. The reading should be very close to zero... any substantial voltage would indicate an earth fault on that bulb holder or the wiring leading to it...

Next test is to the positive contacts to the bulbs. Measure the voltage between the positive connections to the various bulbs and the positive pole of the battery. Again we should be looking for a very low voltage. Any substantial voltage would indicate a high resistance in the wiring from positive.

That being said, all of the indications at the moment are that all switches and wiring is working as it should so I think the time is ripe to try a new indicator relay. Fortunately, it is one of the cheaper three terminal types. I would recommend getting one made by a reputable manufacturer but it doesn't have to be OEM. It is a standard type of three terminal relay... just make sure that the terminal identities match and that it is rated for 2 x 21w plus 1 x 3w bulbs.

Rob
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:43 pm

Quote and responses:


One further test to confirm that the earths are good... With the indicators switched on, check the voltage between the negative pole of the battery and the various bulb grounds. The reading should be very close to zero... any substantial voltage would indicate an earth fault on that bulb holder or the wiring leading to it... All four have readings of approx. 0.2 v.

Next test is to the positive contacts to the bulbs. Measure the voltage between the positive connections to the various bulbs and the positive pole of the battery. Again we should be looking for a very low voltage. Any substantial voltage would indicate a high resistance in the wiring from positive. All have readings b/w 1.7v and 2.2 v.

Rob, when I turned the ignition switch on the relay gave a notable whirring sound. Also, during the second test the flasher stopped working altogether. When I switched it off/on again it worked as before with rapid flashing on the right. When I tried the third time (replication is a good thing) the left side flashed once and then both bulbs stayed on. The same with the right side, one rapid flash and then both bulbs stayed on.

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:00 pm

Hmmm,

a voltage drop on the positive line of around 2 volts on a 12 volt circuit is quite a lot. Not sure if this is the problem or the relay is faulty but a voltage drop of that magnitude is well worth sorting out anyway. Back to bits of wire...

1) Remove the relay from the circuit and use a wire to make a temporary link between terminalos 49 and 49a on the socket (Green/Black and Green/Yellow wires). Now with the ignition on, the turn signal switch should switch on left or right lamps (Obviously no flashing...).

2) For good measure, repeat the second test in the last email to check the voltage drop between battery and bulb.

If the results are very different, then I would say replace the relay without further testing.

3) assuming you still have the drop of around 2 volts at the bulb, you need to work back up the circuit from the bulb to the battery until you find a point where the voltage drop is greatly reduced. Places to try are:

a) the relay terminals.

b) the green black wire in the fuse box

c) the green wire in the fusebox

d) The green wire on the ignition switch

e) The red wire on the ignition switch

At some point, you should find that the voltage drop will differ between two of the test locations... that's where to look for a bad connection or dodgy wire.

Rob
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:41 am

Quote and responses:

Hmmm,

a voltage drop on the positive line of around 2 volts on a 12 volt circuit is quite a lot. Not sure if this is the problem or the relay is faulty but a voltage drop of that magnitude is well worth sorting out anyway. Back to bits of wire...

1) Remove the relay from the circuit and use a wire to make a temporary link between terminalos 49 and 49a on the socket (Green/Black and Green/Yellow wires). Now with the ignition on, the turn signal switch should switch on left or right lamps (Obviously no flashing...). Both right and left lamps light up.

2) For good measure, repeat the second test in the last email to check the voltage drop between battery and bulb. I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Are you referring to the difference in voltage b/w the front and back? If so, it's the same.

If the results are very different, then I would say replace the relay without further testing. As I was about to start in on this I got a call from a shop in Saskatoon that was sourcing a new relay - it's in! Once plugged in both sides now work as they should. Fingers crossed that Prince Lucas doesn't return. Or, are you still concerned about the difference b/w front and back bulbs from the positive feed of the battery?

Kevin


3) assuming you still have the drop of around 2 volts at the bulb, you need to work back up the circuit from the bulb to the battery until you find a point where the voltage drop is greatly reduced. Places to try are:

a) the relay terminals.

b) the green black wire in the fuse box

c) the green wire in the fusebox

d) The green wire on the ignition switch

e) The red wire on the ignition switch

At some point, you should find that the voltage drop will differ between two of the test locations... that's where to look for a bad connection or dodgy wire.

Rob
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67

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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:04 pm

Glad it's sorted I would still want to track down the voltage drop. It dies signify that there is a connection or wiring problem and it's unlikely to get better on its own, in fact it'll probably get worse... stll, the urgency is off.

Rob
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby windmill john » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:08 pm

I remember eight years ago plus, under your guidance Rob possibly, of running separate main earths from the diode board and the main earth point back to the battery.
I know it's not this issue, just mentioning. Of course having these main earths doesn't mean you can forget to check all earths occasionally.


John
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Ari, my 500 Classic
Bumble, my 700 Transalp.
Gupta, my 350 Bullet.
Sold my Airheads, what an idiot.
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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r75boxer
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Re: '87 R65 instrument cluster wiring

Postby r75boxer » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:50 pm

Thanks Rob and John. So, what I should do is follow the wiring from the relay to the headlight pod and ignition switch using the positive terminal on the battery? I do want to get to the bottom of it. Can I assume the the relay 'block' is good? In experience it's nearly impossible to retract the wires in the multi-plugs or is there a trick?

Kevin
'02 R1150RS
'87 R65
'71 R75/5
'58 R26
'51 R67


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