using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

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Justin Time
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using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Justin Time » Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:33 pm

Hi folks,I have just bought an 83 twin shock RS that belonged to my cousin,for the last 3 years he has only used the side stand as it took two people to put it on the centre stand! I bought a new centre stand and bush kit of m/works but it is still takes two people to use it.Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Take care,
Tommy

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby gogs01 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:47 pm

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Is it possible that the suspension has been lowered with shorter shocks, or the forks raised through the yokes ?
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:07 pm

If the stand hasn't been modified (as Gogs01 says), can it be a matter of technique?
Place your right foot on the end of the stand (not on the tang, it'll just break off). Grasp the lifting handle in your right hand with your left hand on the handlebar. Brace between your right foot and your right hand using the leverage of your weight on the stand tube and your arm to lift the bike onto the point of balance then pull it gently back onto it's stop... if you let it smash back onto nthe stop, you'll be replacing it again soon.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby CharlieVictor » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:30 am

The motion is about rolling the bike over the stand, not lifting the whole machine. Indeed technique is everything.
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby gogs01 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:53 am

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Once the bike is on the centre stand (on level ground) and with the front tyre on the deck, look at the clearance between the rear tyre and the deck. If it's more than a couple of inches, the stand is too long or (more likely) the suspension is too short. If the rear tyre is well clear of the deck, getting the bike on to the centre stand may always be beyond the ability of one man.

I've seen a bike with the opposite problem - longer rear suspension made it child's play to get the bike on the centre stand but then both tyres would be (just) touching the deck !
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:32 am

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Once the bike is on the centre stand (on level ground) and with the front tyre on the deck, look at the clearance between the rear tyre and the deck. If it's more than a couple of inches, the stand is too long or (more likely) the suspension is too short. If the rear tyre is well clear of the deck, getting the bike on to the centre stand may always be beyond the ability of one man.

I've seen a bike with the opposite problem - longer rear suspension made it child's play to get the bike on the centre stand but then both tyres would be (just) touching the deck !


That doesn't really apply to pre '85 airheads. If the stand is unworn, the front wheel will sit off tghe ground and the rear will be on the ground. This is true even for the 'RS. The problem really is that the stands on machines between '81 and '85 are very poorly designed and subject to wear, not just of the stand itself but also of the stand stops which are an integral part of the frame. Even a redesign at some point in the period (I believe it was late '81 but records are difficult to find) failed to address the issues. They are:

The bush holes in the stand are very prone to wear and impossible to lubricate effectively.

The tubular stand members are not reinforced where they touch the ground and wear quite quickly to the point where they start to collapse.

The stand stop is simply the flattened edge of the stand tubes coming into contact with a step in the frame mount. Both the stand and the frame wear. There is also a tendency for the frame stop to wear at an angle spreading the stand legs and often causing fractures.

The location of the bushes on the frame is not positive and wear causes the nuts to come loose.

Taken together, all of these factors mean that, over a period, the bike slumps lower and lower until both wheels are on the ground... in fact eventually, it becomes unreliable because the stand isn't taking enough weight to make the bike stable.

The other factor is that, as the stand wears, the effort necessary to lift the bike onto the stand becomes greater and the impact of the stand against the stop increases accelerating the wear... something of a vicious circle... the more worn it gets, the quicker it wears.

I've been fighting this issue on my 'RS for as long as I've owned it. The remedy (which is anything but permanent) is to rework the pivot holes (inserting steel reinforcements in the form of tubular inserts as wide as I can accomodate on the bushes to increase the bearing area).

Welding 'feet' to the ends of the tubes where they contact the ground giving a flat (in one dimension anyway) contact patch between ground and stand.

Regularly replacing the stand bushes and bolts - and checking tightness regularly

Building up the stand stops with weld to rebuild the profile.

Currently the stand is working well but I confidently expect to repeat the same process in a couple of years time.

In essence, if the bike sits with both wheels on the ground, the stand needs attention. If the stand and bushes are new (as in this post) and the wheels are still on the ground, the stops on the frame are worn and need attention.

Rob
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby gogs01 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:19 am

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Rob - I bow to your superior knowledge ! :grin:

The centre stand on the RS certainly sounds like a labour of love !
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:35 am

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The centre stand on the RS certainly sounds like a labour of love !
Everything on these Airheads is a labour of love. It is a lot like a wife but cheaper.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby windmill john » Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:01 pm

If you do continue to struggle Tommy, I now use wood at home.
I’ve had a lot of bikes of all types and the 700 Transalp by FARRRRR is the hardest bike to get on the main stand. I have technique and most bikes are a doddle.

I have to now leave the Transalp on the side stand when not at home. but with the wood, it is easier than a push bike.

Roll wheel onto wood, lower stand, bike just plops onto stand clear of the wood. \:D/ gets rid of that issue where the stand is too long.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby SteveD » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:22 pm

Worth a read, taking note of the centre stand weld done by ME 109.
http://www.boxerworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2785
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Justin Time » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:07 pm

Thanks guys for your input,technique is not the problem,this is my 9th bm with 7 of them being airheads rs's and I never had this issue wit any of them. Front wheel is a full 2 inches off the deck when on the stand,suspension is standard Hagon front and rear.Although I will never see 77 again I have no problem using the stand on my rs mono.Rob thanks for the points you made I will delve a little deeper after reading your posts,John, if all else fails it's down to the timber yard! Take care,
Tommy.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:36 pm

.
Rob - I bow to your superior knowledge ! :grin:

The centre stand on the RS certainly sounds like a labour of love !
I think 'a love/hate relationship' is closer to the truth of it...

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Roy Gavin » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am

Design come into it too, I had a Honda VFR, 23O kg and top heavy and useless lifting handle.
But the stand was well designed when it came to lifting, with a decently long tang and a well designed radius at the foot of the stand.
So all you had to do was get the bike vertical and put a bit weight on the tang and the bike rolled back what seemed like 150mm and popped up on the stand, virtually without any effort,back wheel lightly touching and front about 10 mm clear.
Same problem with the pivots though, and I replaced mine due to worn pivot holes.
I have the OP's problem too, with my G/S back wheel 60 mm of the ground.
Promise myself that one day I will replace the bottom portion of stand with the bottom to the Honda one.
Maybe next week!

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby King Herald » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:12 am

Design come into it too, I had a Honda VFR, 23O kg and top heavy and useless lifting handle.
But the stand was well designed when it came to lifting, with a decently long tang and a well designed radius at the foot of the stand.
So all you had to do was get the bike vertical and put a bit weight on the tang and the bike rolled back what seemed like 150mm and popped up on the stand, virtually without any effort,back wheel lightly touching and front about 10 mm clear.
My ‘97 Oilhead is the same, a three finger pull on the rear frame tube, while stepping on the stand.....and she just rolls onto the stand.
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby nmag » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:11 am

You push the centre stand down with the tang, then move your foot over on to the end of the stand before lifting.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby alexxx » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am

At first I was struggling to get my R80 on it's centre stand, I have the "knack" now but it is still not an easy task.
The stand foot that you need to press on is too far under the bike for my liking, I will be extending that out more to the side so I can apply pressure better. It is not a good design but the rest of the bike is great so I suffer it.
A hydraulic or electrically actuated centre stand would be a great advantage on any heavy bike, I think modern heavyweights don't even have centre stands, no idea how they get servicing done.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby barryh » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:08 pm

If you do continue to struggle Tommy, I now use wood at home.

Even when the stand is in good condition with the correct ride height, there is still a case for making life easier. I have a 1" plank of wood in the garage at home which the front wheel is rolled on to. The stand then being easier to deploy, it follows there should be less wear and tear and I won't have to do all that welding and angle grinding again any time soon.

As pointed out the stand is a poor construction which can be improved on considerably with weld and an angle grinder. Best mod I ever did to the bike.

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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby chasbmw » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:08 pm

It’s not just a matter of technique.......The 83 stand is a bugger, one issue is that bmw moved the pivot point to accommodate the twin balance pipe exhaust so it’s significantly harder than the earlier bikes.
The other issue is that the catch point on the frame wears and the stand goes overcentre. Get a welder out and weld up the catch point....there was a good write up by a Swiss guy, whose name I can’t remember, but doubtless someone will.
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby SteveD » Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:53 am

...Get a welder out and weld up the catch point....there was a good write up by a Swiss guy, whose name I can’t remember, but doubtless someone will.
Joerg. O:)

https://www.schweizerschrauber.ch/mot/r ... enterstand
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby chasbmw » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:20 am

thats the one........
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby bob » Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:31 am

Over time the stand wears down where it hits its stop and, as a result, it goes too far 'over centre' and will be an absolute pig to get the bike onto its stand. I added some weld to the stand's tangs and it absolutely transformed my ability to get the bike onto its stand. When on the stand, the stand is a little more vertical now and very much easier to push off it too.
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:44 pm

...Get a welder out and weld up the catch point....there was a good write up by a Swiss guy, whose name I can’t remember, but doubtless someone will.
Joerg. O:)

https://www.schweizerschrauber.ch/mot/r ... enterstand


A good description of the problem and the remedies... The only thing I would add is...

The easiest way to get the springs back into place is to first assemble the stand to the frame and tighten the bolts then assemble the spring hangers and springs at the 'frame end. Next, with the bike on the side stand, lift the main stand into the closed position and insert a long scredriver os other rod into the hook at the 'stand' end of the spring. The end of the lever (screwdriver or rod) is then inserted into the hook on the stand and the l;ever is used to stretch the sping With this, the spring will slide along the lever and into engagement with the hook. Repeat for the other spring.

Rob
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:57 pm

...Get a welder out and weld up the catch point....there was a good write up by a Swiss guy, whose name I can’t remember, but doubtless someone will.
Joerg. O:)

https://www.schweizerschrauber.ch/mot/r ... enterstand


A good description of the problem and the remedies... The only thing I would add is...

The easiest way to get the springs back into place is to first assemble the stand to the frame and tighten the bolts then assemble the spring hangers and springs at the 'frame end. Next, with the bike on the side stand, lift the main stand into the closed position and insert a long scredriver os other rod into the hook at the 'stand' end of the spring. The end of the lever (screwdriver or rod) is then inserted into the hook on the stand and the l;ever is used to stretch the sping With this, the spring will slide along the lever and into engagement with the hook. Repeat for the other spring.

Rob
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby SteveD » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:37 pm

There's always the coins between the coils trick too...a bit tedious but does work.
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Re: using the centre stand on 83 rs is a two man job!

Postby John Marshall » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:41 pm

Coins? Last time I needed to do this we didn’t have enough.Even worse now.Credit cards just would not do it.
John


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