Painting and engine

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andys
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Painting and engine

Postby andys » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:49 am

My recently acquired R1200CL is in great condition, but a few area's around the engine let it down, the main area being the front cover /plate.
So I decided to tackle it.
I sanded it down, and used a non VHT Hammerite grey silver, which is a near perfect match.
I sprayed onto a warm engine, and was amazed with the result.
I got a near perfect factory finish.
Anyway left it for a couple of weeks and then started her up.
Once the engine was properly warmed up, to my horror that beautiful finish became sticky to the touch, and I was able to scrape it away with a finger nail.
:sad:
So what's the secret.
Should I use VHT paint even on the block.
Should I completely strip the old finish off to bare metal
Should I be using a primer.
Any advice gratefully received.

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Rob Frankhamr
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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:18 am

It's always a good idea to have a look at the tech spec of any material you are using if the conditions are in any way out of the ordinary, (e.g. when painting a surface that is likely to grow hot as in this case). Most specs can be found on line, that for Hammerite is here https://pinmarsupply.com/media/?wpdmdl=14965&ind=0

As you can see, Hammerite is rated to withstand a constant temperature of 80 degress centigrade with an intermittent rating of 150 degrees c. The block on your bike will almost certainly exceed 80 degrees after the engine has been running for a while so Hammerite isn't a good finish for this use. The spec also tells us that the paint doesn't like being applied when the temperature is less than 3 degrees above the dew point, The dew point is dependant on temperature and air pressure. Without going in to detail, if you want the best results you should apply the paint on a warm dry day (this is something I've found out from experience #-o )

I fear you will need to remove all of the hammerite from your block before you apply any other finish. It may also be a good idea to remove all of the old finish. Use a Hi temperature paint... there are paints specifically formulated for engine blocks... you don't need to go to a VHT paint. Some require primers, some don't so follow the manufacturers instructions.

Hope that helps

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:29 pm

Rub 'n' Buff colour 'Silver Leaf' as used by many others here on engine, transmission, wheels and fork leg aluminium castings.

This is an American manufactured mica-based wax product used a lot in art work for staining picture frames and other objects.

It comes in a small tube which doesn't need a lot when applying sparingly to a cleaned surface using a tooth brush and then buffed with a cloth for a shiny finish.

It lasts surprisingly well in all weather and is easily re-applied.

Here is an Ebay UK link:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1755687966

Keep it off plastic, rubber and skin as it is difficult to remove and will stain.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
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Re: Painting and engine

Postby windmill john » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:44 pm

To use Rub n Buff on your engine which I think is a different alloy to Airheads? you’ll have to go back to the bare alloy then Rub n Buff.

I have used VHT paints successfully on engines, usually Japanese casings and cylinders. If I recall, the ones I used did not need a primer, but I do know the one I used to use, which came from Halfords, they no longer sell, do cannot vouch for current stock.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:59 pm

Thanks guys.
The thing is this Hammerite paint was what was being recommended on another forum, with great results.
Mine failed miserably.
I've got it all off now and am stripping the old finish off the front engine cover.
To be honest it looks rather good in bare alloy.
I might be tempted to just leave it and polish it.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby windmill john » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:43 pm

Will it not fur up? Not sure of the finish of yours, my old 850 GS had a plastic cowl over most of the timing chain cover with flaky paint round it!

Rub n Buff still needs to be reapplied when looking untidy, but it works beautifully on Ks and Airheads. Never used it on my oilheads as the finish was different.
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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:20 pm

.......Rub n Buff still needs to be reapplied when looking untidy, but it works beautifully on Ks and Airheads. Never used it on my oilheads as the finish was different.

I use it on my 1996 R1100RT Oilhead which has silver-painted wheels, forks, final drive and swing arm.
The engine/gearbox might have been painted black originally but that is long gone and a weathered alloy remains.

The cylinder heads and barrels were given a wire brushing to clean off the corrosion/debris, cleaned with Brake Cleaner and Rub 'n' Buff was applied with a toothbrush.
The improvement was startling!

Buoyed by success, I moved onto the front forks, swing-arm, final drive and wheels all of which were once painted silver and suffered from flaking and corrosion.

The corroded/paint-denuded areas were merely rubbed down smooth and cleaned with Brake Cleaner before applying the Rub 'n' Buff with a toothbrush and buffing by hand with a cloth.

Now I don't keep my bike in pristine condition and the Rub 'n' Buff is not supposed to be applied to painted surfaces but it has held up well and the improvement in appearance is substantial.
It works best on clean, unpainted aluminium alloy however.

Much depends on the quality of the finish you want to achieve but, for the small investment in cost and time, it is worth trying to see if it suits you.
Note that the Rub 'n' Buff colour required is 'Silver Leaf' to closely match the aluminium castings and any existing silver paint.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:33 pm


The cylinder heads and barrels were given a wire brushing to clean off the corrosion/debris, cleaned with Brake Cleaner and Rub 'n' Buff was applied with a toothbrush.
The improvement was startling!
Am I reading that right.
You applied it to the barrels and it withstands the heat
:shock:
Anyway I've ordered some leave silver as recommended.
I don't mind re applying from time to time as apart from the front engine cover, it's only small area's I'm addressing.
Got to be worth a try.
Many thanks

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:54 pm

Yup - you are reading it correctly - I applied it to the barrels and the cylinder heads! :smile:

I discovered somehow that it appeared to use powdered Mica and wax in its composition and, as Mica is stable when exposed to electricity, light, moisture, and extreme temperatures, reckoned it had a good chance of survival as the wax would likely vaporise and deposit the Mica on the metal.
Mica - Wikipedia; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica

It's been on for between 2 and 3 thousand miles now and still looks OK.

Maybe some of the Airhead owners who use it could comment further on this?

It's made in the USA by AMACO (AMerican Art Clay CO inc)
http://www.amaco.com/t/mixed-media/metallic-finishes

Anyway, see how it works for you and if it meets your needs - as you say, got to be worth a try anyway! :grin:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:06 am

Pity they don't do it in black for my bikes barrels.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:27 am

Pity they don't do it in black for my bikes barrels.

Oh yes they do and in a lot of other colours as well! :smile:
Rub 'n' Buff Ebony: http://www.amaco.com/products/rnb-ebony ... xon_id=325

Other colours: http://www.amaco.com/t/mixed-media/meta ... rub-n-buff

Ebay UK (Same Ebay seller 'habercrafts' - choose your colour): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rub-N-Buff-O ... mSFsXDK2dw
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby boxerman » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:01 am

Maybe some of the Airhead owners who use it could comment further on this?
Works just fine on the barrels and lasts forever. Not sure how well it will last on the painted R11s tho.
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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:59 am

Thanks Phil! :smile:

I suppose that most will use it on the R11's where the paint has already gone and just left corroded/weathered patches to be covered with the Rub 'n' Buff.

Even if applied over remaining paint the hard Carnauba wax incorporated will give some protection and help fix the Mica to the surface but, as you say, likely won't last as long.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby windmill john » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:58 pm

Pity they don't do it in black for my bikes barrels.

Note, I found the black was awful to apply... read didn’t apply!

Maybe I had a bad tube. I’ve used a few silvers and all good, but but black... ](*,)

I didn’t come out of the tube like silver, it was more lumpy as if the wax had gone. If someone else has tried and been successful, let me know.

John
http://www.kittos.co.uk
Best roads: 623 Burgos to Santander. A back road to Metz; can't remember which!
Schorsch - 1978-80 R65 - bit of a Shetland pony; frisky and naughty.
Max - 2009 F800GS- where’s the desert at!?
Too many bikes have come and gone, trying to be sensible now!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:24 pm


Works just fine on the barrels and lasts forever. Not sure how well it will last on the painted R11s tho.
The area's in question have been taken back to bare metal.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:42 pm

OK so I have applied the rub and buff to a few areas of my engine which I had taken back to bare metal, and yeah, pretty good.
Does it actually dry to a hard finish.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Not as such - regard it as a polish.

It lasts well - just reapply when appropriate.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:03 pm

Not as such - regard it as a polish.

It lasts well - just reapply when appropriate.
It came off my fingers with fairy liquid and a sponge.
Hope it's a bit more durable on the bike.
It is good though.

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:43 pm

Don't forget to buff it up with a cloth which gives a dull shine and a better weather-resistant finish!

Also, try and avoid riding through puddles of Fairy Liquid and any Sponge Cakes lying on the road! :smile:
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Painting and engine

Postby andys » Fri May 25, 2018 7:22 pm

Well, I met a guy today with a beautifully restored R45.
He'd done the whole block in silver leaf rub & buff and it still looks like this after three years.
:shock:

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