Scary

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Mjolinor
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Scary

Postby Mjolinor » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:55 pm


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Re: Scary

Postby windmill john » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:48 pm

Bloody hell! Another crappy driver... but there are riders that bad too.
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Re: Scary

Postby andys » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:37 pm

I don't understand how he misread that bend.
Didn't appear to be using excessive speed.

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Re: Scary

Postby Mjolinor » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:16 am

I agree. It is just such an horrendous accident given that the mistakes made were so trivial and easy to make. Wrong place, wrong time was never more applicable.

I do think that in a case like that my first reaction is not to brake it is to get out of the way but having the benefit of hindsight makes things easier to decide.

Best just taken as a warning to be careful out there.

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Re: Scary

Postby windmill john » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:44 am

I don't understand how he misread that bend.
Didn't appear to be using excessive speed.

He’s actually up to 65 going into the bend. Whilst not fast, it’s hard to tell from the video how sharp the bend is. A Go Pro on wide can distort; but I might be wrong. As already said, driver might have been distracted, but no excuse.
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Re: Scary

Postby CharlieVictor » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:02 am

That video was posted also by Nutty Bikers, and I can only repeat my comment: Most times when riding a motorcycle, hard braking is NOT the first option when being suddenly confronted to a situation of "reduced horizon", contrary to when driving a car.

There was (little) time for the rider to either swerve left (and roll in the ditch) or swerve right cutting the incoming lane (as the rear camera shows there was no traffic coming). In this kind of sudden emergency situation, one will react on muscle reflexes, not thought through decision making. In this case, the rider hit the brakes, as he himself were in a car, which didn't help avoiding the collision.

Even if he had managed a full stop, the car driver would have not. The rider was a sitting duck.

That's why I find terrifying those instructors who teach to ride constantly with two fingers on the front brake lever... What it does is condition the muscle to this sole recourse: squeeze the lever when shit happens.
Rule of thumb should be front brake if you need to stop, rear brake and avoidance technique if you need to avert a collision.

I had a similar scenario (albeit in a village and at half that speed) happen to me a couple weeks ago. Incoming elderly driver blinded by sun turned wide into my lane... There was just a couple seconds to make the decision (probably less than in this video), and I swerved right and jumped on the low-curb sidewalk.
To this day I'm still wondering if the old guy ever saw me... At barely the speed limit of 50kph/30mph I could have safely stopped in my tracks, which however wouldn't have prevented the car from hitting my bike.

In my humble opinion a great discipline to learn how to perform avoiding/evasive actions is gymkhana. It teaches the limitations of one's motorcycle (far beyond what one usually thinks they are), instills techniques not taught at riding school, and helps build muscle reflexes other than hitting the brakes.
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Re: Scary

Postby kfrogzx7 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:37 pm

He was wearing an air bag suit ( £1.5k worth ish ? ), which he attributed his survival to ...... how many of us ride in one of those ?
The police used the collision to further urge the wearing of appropriate protective clothing, failing to mention that conventional motorcycle gear probably wouldn't have saved him in this case !!
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Re: Scary

Postby CharlieVictor » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:35 pm

He was wearing an air bag suit ( £1.5k worth ish ? ), which he attributed his survival to ...... how many of us ride in one of those ?
The police used the collision to further urge the wearing of appropriate protective clothing, failing to mention that conventional motorcycle gear probably wouldn't have saved him in this case !!
Well, I fail to understand the connexion, since with an airbag vest he still broke his back and his sternum.
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Re: Scary

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:16 pm

He was wearing an air bag suit ( £1.5k worth ish ? ), which he attributed his survival to ...... how many of us ride in one of those ?
The police used the collision to further urge the wearing of appropriate protective clothing, failing to mention that conventional motorcycle gear probably wouldn't have saved him in this case !!
Well, I fail to understand the connexion, since with an airbag vest he still broke his back and his sternum.
Well, at least he survived I suppose... It's an interesting thing that, for everything, there's always another way of looking at it... I recall talking to an A & E doctor just after the helmet laws came in. He was quite adamant that the new use of protective gear was costing the National Health Srevice a fortune... according to him, they were getting a substantial number of bikers through with very severe bodily injuries, who would not have previously survived. The cost of trying to piece the smashed bodies back together to give the surviving brain an acceptable standard of living was phenomenal. Not that I'm advocating going back to riding without helmets or protective gear... but an observation like that, just because it's cold and calculating has nonetheless, an element of truth.

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Re: Scary

Postby george baker » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:15 am

Hi
No helmet equals lots of transplant bits
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Re: Scary

Postby Mjolinor » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:38 am

Well personally a helmet has never done me any good whatsoever in all the years I have been riding other than keeping my ears warm and my hair dry.

I am old enough to remember bikes before the laws were introduced and rarely rode without one then but not wearing one is an experience that I am glad I did not miss.

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Re: Scary

Postby King Herald » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:41 am

I spent a year living in Thailand, riding a bike daily without a helmet. I was much younger but didn’t feel uncomfortable about it.

The ideal of riding free, wind in your hair, listening to the dull roar of your exhaust..... nah, anything above about 30 mph and wind roar over you ears is the only thing you can hear. :???:

I hope they don’t use this guys air bag suit as an excuse to force them on bikers in general. :shock: Leg protectors were an abomination that came very close to be compulsory once, hideous idea.
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Re: Scary

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:44 am

Well personally a helmet has never done me any good whatsoever in all the years I have been riding other than keeping my ears warm and my hair dry.

I am old enough to remember bikes before the laws were introduced and rarely rode without one then but not wearing one is an experience that I am glad I did not miss.
I can safely say that I would have needed at least fairly major facial surgery but for a full face helmet... When you can see the track the chinpiece of the helmet made as it passed over the roof of the car that turned across in front of you it does tend to emphasise a certain perspective in these things :smile: ...

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Re: Scary

Postby Jockboxer » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:16 pm

He was wearing an air bag suit ( £1.5k worth ish ? ), which he attributed his survival to ...... how many of us ride in one of those ?
The police used the collision to further urge the wearing of appropriate protective clothing, failing to mention that conventional motorcycle gear probably wouldn't have saved him in this case !!
Well, I fail to understand the connexion, since with an airbag vest he still broke his back and his sternum.
Well, at least he survived I suppose... It's an interesting thing that, for everything, there's always another way of looking at it... I recall talking to an A & E doctor just after the helmet laws came in. He was quite adamant that the new use of protective gear was costing the National Health Srevice a fortune... according to him, they were getting a substantial number of bikers through with very severe bodily injuries, who would not have previously survived.
NHS term for biker? "Donor". :grin:

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Re: Scary

Postby CharlieVictor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:41 am



Well, I fail to understand the connexion, since with an airbag vest he still broke his back and his sternum.
Well, at least he survived I suppose... It's an interesting thing that, for everything, there's always another way of looking at it... I recall talking to an A & E doctor just after the helmet laws came in. He was quite adamant that the new use of protective gear was costing the National Health Srevice a fortune... according to him, they were getting a substantial number of bikers through with very severe bodily injuries, who would not have previously survived.
NHS term for biker? "Donor". :grin:
"Organ donor" is also the inside slang for emergency services here.
Especially around Paris and the "boulevard périphérique" (our version of the circular), bikers, but more often scooter riders, get into heavy trouble and usually wear very little in terms of safety equipment. :???:
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Re: Scary

Postby Mjolinor » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:50 am


NHS term for biker? "Donor". :grin:
Not me. I opted out.

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Re: Scary

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:00 pm



Well, I fail to understand the connexion, since with an airbag vest he still broke his back and his sternum.
Well, at least he survived I suppose... It's an interesting thing that, for everything, there's always another way of looking at it... I recall talking to an A & E doctor just after the helmet laws came in. He was quite adamant that the new use of protective gear was costing the National Health Srevice a fortune... according to him, they were getting a substantial number of bikers through with very severe bodily injuries, who would not have previously survived.
NHS term for biker? "Donor". :grin:
I don't argue with that... If the worst should come to the worst, that's cool! I ride a bike. I know the risks and I choose to take them.

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Re: Scary

Postby andys » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:45 pm

As an aside, I was once in a similar position coming around a sharp left hand bend.
I was faced with a car on wrong side.
Luckily I managed to get right in to the left side and just missed it but it was close.
So close I heard the female passenger screaming.
If I'd been in the car I wouldn't have stood a chance.
All I suffered was some scratches on fairing from the brambles I rubbed up against.

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Re: Scary

Postby Mjolinor » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:05 pm

As an aside, I was once in a similar position coming around a sharp left hand bend.
I was faced with a car on wrong side.
Luckily I managed to get right in to the left side and just missed it but it was close.
So close I heard the female passenger screaming.
If I'd been in the car I wouldn't have stood a chance.
All I suffered was some scratches on fairing from the brambles I rubbed up against.
I lost two good friends in exactly that situation, 15 years apart but both wooden boxed.

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Re: Scary

Postby Gareth » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:50 pm

That video was posted also by Nutty Bikers, and I can only repeat my comment: Most times when riding a motorcycle, hard braking is NOT the first option when being suddenly confronted to a situation of "reduced horizon", contrary to when driving a car.

There was (little) time for the rider to either swerve left (and roll in the ditch) or swerve right cutting the incoming lane (as the rear camera shows there was no traffic coming). In this kind of sudden emergency situation, one will react on muscle reflexes, not thought through decision making. In this case, the rider hit the brakes, as he himself were in a car, which didn't help avoiding the collision.

Even if he had managed a full stop, the car driver would have not. The rider was a sitting duck.
I don’t disagree. But the reality is that you have a split second to react. As I well know from having faced a similar(ish) situation (a car coming round a fastish sweeping corner sideways in the wet) you have no idea of where the car is going to go next. I doubt if any of us would have gone to the left – I don’t think I would have, but that was, having watched the video time and time again,sadly his best option. I might, maybe, have dodged to the right, whilst also hoping the car doesn’t swing right, but then watching the video he’d have more than likely been wiped out by the following car.

It’s worth bearing in mind that the footage shows the speed taken from GPS which is usually pretty accurate. It’s not what would be showing on the cars speedo. That motor was shifting.

The biker is lucky to be alive and I hope he makes a full recovery.

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Re: Scary

Postby CharlieVictor » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:13 am

That video was posted also by Nutty Bikers, and I can only repeat my comment: Most times when riding a motorcycle, hard braking is NOT the first option when being suddenly confronted to a situation of "reduced horizon", contrary to when driving a car.

There was (little) time for the rider to either swerve left (and roll in the ditch) or swerve right cutting the incoming lane (as the rear camera shows there was no traffic coming). In this kind of sudden emergency situation, one will react on muscle reflexes, not thought through decision making. In this case, the rider hit the brakes, as he himself were in a car, which didn't help avoiding the collision.

Even if he had managed a full stop, the car driver would have not. The rider was a sitting duck.
I don’t disagree. But the reality is that you have a split second to react. As I well know from having faced a similar(ish) situation (a car coming round a fastish sweeping corner sideways in the wet) you have no idea of where the car is going to go next. I doubt if any of us would have gone to the left – I don’t think I would have, but that was, having watched the video time and time again,sadly his best option. I might, maybe, have dodged to the right, whilst also hoping the car doesn’t swing right, but then watching the video he’d have more than likely been wiped out by the following car.

It’s worth bearing in mind that the footage shows the speed taken from GPS which is usually pretty accurate. It’s not what would be showing on the cars speedo. That motor was shifting.

The biker is lucky to be alive and I hope he makes a full recovery.
That's exactly my point Gareth. The "split second to react" will be a result of muscle memory, not conscious action. Hence the second part of my post that can't be dissociated from the first.

As they say, "train hard, fight easy, train easy, fight hard". If as a rider you never practiced avoiding / evasive techniques (and on top of that, do ride constantly with two fingers on the brake lever, as "my instructor taught me"), the odds for the muscle reflex to develop are slim.

What I am NOT saying is that it will make any rider always avoid an accident. Let's just say we need all the help and skill we can get, so A) we avoid getting in a jam in the first place and B) if unavoidable we walk away unscathed.
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Re: Scary

Postby Gareth » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:24 pm

That's exactly my point Gareth. The "split second to react" will be a result of muscle memory, not conscious action. Hence the second part of my post that can't be dissociated from the first.

As they say, "train hard, fight easy, train easy, fight hard". If as a rider you never practiced avoiding / evasive techniques (and on top of that, do ride constantly with two fingers on the brake lever, as "my instructor taught me"), the odds for the muscle reflex to develop are slim.

What I am NOT saying is that it will make any rider always avoid an accident. Let's just say we need all the help and skill we can get, so A) we avoid getting in a jam in the first place and B) if unavoidable we walk away unscathed.
Totally agree with you that two fingers over the brake is a bad idea. I like to have my fingers wrapped round the bars, it just feels right. Plus, I wouldn’t want to initiate an emergency with just two fingers, I think you get much more feel with four.

The other thing that surprises me is that new bikers are not taught how to steer their bikes. And it depresses me that some still consider it a controversial subject.

That car could have collected anything or nothing coming out of that bend, the driver seemed unconcerned as to what might be round the corner.

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Re: Scary

Postby King Herald » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:09 am


The other thing that surprises me is that new bikers are not taught how to steer their bikes. And it depresses me that some still consider it a controversial subject.

You mean they’re not taught the revolutionary new ‘counter steering’? :-k
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Re: Scary

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:30 am

.

The other thing that surprises me is that new bikers are not taught how to steer their bikes. And it depresses me that some still consider it a controversial subject.


You mean they’re not thought the revolutionary new ‘counter steering’? :-k
Oh come on now, don't bring up that old wives tale. I'm sure everyone knows that every bike has a resident gremlin or imp that pushes the bike right when you expect to go left... [-X

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Re: Scary

Postby gogs01 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:07 pm

.
This may sound strange, but .....

In a car, my instinct when faced with an imminent impact is to brake (full force on the pedal, knowing that ABS will do what it can) and try to steer towards something soft(er).

On the bike, I have a morbid (rational ?) fear of losing a leg, so I will always try to avoid any kind of side impact. So, although we never actually know what we will do until we have to do it, I suspect I would have done exactly the same as the unfortunate rider in the video and I probably wouldn't have survived to tell the tale - no fancy airbag leathers and a 72 year-old body, a rather fragile combination.

I don't ride covering the front (or rear) brake, unless I'm filtering, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have had the nous to think about counter-steering in the time available to the rider in the video. Even with the benefit of hindsight .....
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