Tax and MOT exemption

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Bav
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Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Bav » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:52 am

I want to apply for historic vehicle tax and MOT exemption but am confused about what I need to do. I thought I just needed to take my V5 and a V112 form to the Post Office but my local one said I first have to send my V5 off to get it changed first? Should I just go to my main Post Office or is my local one correct?

Do I need a form V70? If anyone has successfully done this I would appreciate some advice.


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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Tincan3 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:27 pm

This is a while ago for me but, as I remember, I took the logbook to the PO and they detached part of it and sent it off for me. However, you could send it straight to DVLA along with whatever application form applies. The MOT exemption is automatic once historic status is registered as far as I know. Hope that helps. What I am wondering about now is how a lack of MOT might go down in the EU!

Covid disrupted DVLA at one point since so many staff were off work. I collected my new bike from the dealer on 7/11/2020 but did not receive the registration document (logbook) until March 2021. This discrepancy was interesting when I tried to fill in some online insurance quote forms as they did not recognise the bike as a 2020 model! However a replacement driving licence came through in about a week after applying so it seems DVLA are functioning as usual now.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:38 pm

Be aware that the extension of the 'historic vehicle registration' scheme year on year isn't automatic, although it is to expected that it will take place since (for what it's worth) the government has made a commitment to doing so. The change has to be signed off by the treasury (I think) and the DVLA will be unable to accept applications for vehicles registered after 1st January 1981 until it is. The .gov.uk website still states 'vehicles after 1st January 1981 so it is pretty certain that the exemption hasn't been signed off yet.

The position on MOT's is interesting in that, although in principle the 40 year exclusion is written into the legislation, in practice, it doesn't apply unless the vehicle is registered as historic and the necessary declaration of exemption is done as part of the registration procedure...

To answer another question, the historic declaration can only be done in person at a post office that deals with vehicle taxing matters (not all post offices do) That's an 80 mile round trip for me...

You need to complete a form V112 and take the required documentation to the post office.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, while the scheme refers to the date of manufacture, the DVLA will assume the date of first UK registration unless you can prove the date of manufacture. Proving the date of manufacture normally involves getting a decvlaration from the manufacturer or in some cases, from a recognised marque owners club. Assuming the bike you're talking about is a BMW, you can get letter of declaration by emailing the BMW archive at info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com. There is a fee of €50.00. or, if you are a member of the 'other' club, they will do it for you. They will also do it for non members but they'll charge you much more than it would cost doing it yourself.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby george baker » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:57 pm

Hi
The saga what John did for his Honda

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=29438&hilit=honda

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby King Herald » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:02 pm

What I am wondering about now is how a lack of MOT might go down in the EU!

To the best of my knowledge the UK is fairly unique in Europe for having an annual inspection. There were recent uprisings because they tried to introduce one in Spain recently.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby stanthomas » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:27 am

If you want to use the bike now and the bike isn't currently taxed, go to a tax issuing post office with V5 and MOT exemption form. Fill in the V5 bit to change the taxation class to historic. Be prepared to pay the non-historic VED - you will get a refund in due course. Post office will send V5 off to DVLA who will update and return when they get round to it. If you don't want to tax the bike at the moment but simply want the taxation class changed, fill in the changes bit on the V5 and send directly to DVLA. DVLA website covers this quite well.

For most bikes, the zero tax rate applies from the beginning of the year after the bike was first registered, so an '81 bike will have just become eligible. There are some back-dating exceptions for bikes manufactured long before they were registered or bikes registered in the first few weeks of a year.
MOT exemption is automatic on the 40th aniversary of first registration but status might not be updated on DVLA website for a while (3 months in my case).

If a bike is legal for use in the UK it will also be legal in the EU.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:25 am


MOT exemption is automatic on the 40th aniversary of first registration but status might not be updated on DVLA website for a while (3 months in my case).


I'm afraid you're missing a trick Stan, the MOT exemption only applies (for vehicles registered after 1960) if the vehicle is registered as a historic vehicle and is not therefore, completely automatic. Here isthe government advice:



How to declare a vehicle for the 40 year MOT exemption

Vehicle keepers are required to ensure that their vehicles are taxed when used on a public road. From 20 May 2018, at the point of taxing a vehicle, the vehicle keeper can declare their vehicle exempt from MOT if it was constructed more than 40 years ago.

When declaring an exemption, you will be required to confirm that it has not been substantially changed (as defined in this guidance). This process will be applied to pre-1960 registered vehicles, as well as newer vehicles in the historic vehicle tax class.

If the vehicle does not have an MOT and you wish to continue using it on the public roads, you will have either to undergo an MOT or, if you wish exemption from the MOT, to declare that the vehicle is a VHI.

If the vehicle has a current MOT certificate but you anticipate that on expiry of that certificate you will wish exemption from future MOTs you will at the time of relicensing be required to declare that the vehicle is a VHI.

How to tax your vehicle in the historic vehicle tax class

Where vehicle keepers first apply for the historic vehicle tax class, it must be done at a Post Office. If you are declaring that your vehicle is exempt from MOT, you will need to complete a V112 declaration form, taking into consideration the substantially changed guidelines, (as defined above). Further re-licensing applications, including making subsequent declarations that the vehicle does not require an MOT, can be completed online.

Further advice on taxing in the historic vehicle tax class can be found via the following link:

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles


You also need to complete the V112 declaration form and present it at a post office when the registration is changed to historic otherwise the vehicle isn't exempt for the purposes of the MOT.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby stanthomas » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:39 pm

From https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles
You do not have to apply to stop getting an MOT for your vehicle each year. However, you must still keep it in a roadworthy condition.

The MOT on my '81 expired in October 2021. I didn't bother getting a new one. Took a couple of months but the bike now shows on the DVLA 'Check if a vehicle is taxed pages' https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax as "green box" 'MOT - no results returned' (just like the bikes where I went thru the historic class change process. This BMW has not has its taxation class changed to historic - yet. So the evidence is that the statement above is correct.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:39 pm

On the face of it, that would appear to be an error by DVLA. One of the conditions for exemption is that you have declared the vehicle to be devoid of any substantial changes (etc) on a form V112. Personally, if it was an issue (i.e. if I were intending to use the vehicle before I had it registered 'historic' and completed a V112), I would most certainly check. Certainly, my '81 doesn't return that result although, to be fair, that may be because it has a current MOT.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby stanthomas » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:55 pm

Then it's a matter of wording - the MOT exemption requires that the vehicle be 40 years old and no substantial modifications etc... But not that a declaration be made to that effect - unless you try to tax it at a post office (maybe online too, can't remember).

There is a way to find out - come February I could try to tax it as is, online, without a declaration. But I'm not sure I'm so bothered about winning an argument that's worth paying full VED when I can change to historic and it's free.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:50 am

It's not really about 'winning an argument' it's about assessing the information available and trying to come up with a realistic assesment of the situation not based on 'what I want to be true'.

The information I have put out is direct from the government advice about this matter. I would suggest that it is a close to the horses mouth as you can get. It really is no skin off my nose if you choose to ignore it.

This thread is not about you nor about any disagreement between you and I. it's about supplying the best information for the member who started it (and anyone else in the same situation).

Each individual must make his own decisionm my only intention is to make sure people have the widest information on which to base that decision.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby stanthomas » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:45 pm

And yet you do want to argue Rob. And I'm fine with that.

I can't find an exact match for the text you quote above (
How to declare a vehicle for the 40 year MOT exemption
) on any government website and you don't cite a source.

So let's go to the primary legislation. You will see at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... cle%20test the Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, section 6 of which provides for exemptions from MOT testing requirements, were amended for "vehicles of historical interest". See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ulation/6.. Nowhere does the legislation say you must make a declaration to obtain the exemption, it is automatic if the criteria are satisfied. Which correlates with the line I quoted from https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles.

I suggest that the exemption declaration is a formality for the post office who expect insurance and MOT certificates. DVLA already know it's MOT exempt under the 40 year rule (computers you see) and it will go thru without a declaration. Of course, this is not likely to be tested very often 'cos most will want to use the 40 year rule to go historic and save on VED.


While we're at it, you earlier stated
Be aware that the extension of the 'historic vehicle registration' scheme year on year isn't automatic...
It is, see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... ty/enacted and, perhaps easier to read, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... ty/enacted.


Over to you...

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Tony the Skin » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:35 am

Never has so much been said about so little. My sympathy is with Bav who might now regret asking.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Tony the Skin » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:49 am

Never has so much been said about so little. My sympathy is with Bav who might now regret asking.
Simply take your registration document to the Post Office having entered historic on the section allowing changes to taxation class. They will tax it for you at £00.00p. They will keep the document giving you a receipt. In a couple of weeks you will get a new keeper document. Do NOT send it yourself to the DVLA. Good luck.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:31 am

And yet you do want to argue Rob. And I'm fine with that.

I can't find an exact match for the text you quote above (
How to declare a vehicle for the 40 year MOT exemption
) on any government website and you don't cite a source.

So let's go to the primary legislation. You will see at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/201 ... cle%20test the Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981, section 6 of which provides for exemptions from MOT testing requirements, were amended for "vehicles of historical interest". See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ulation/6.. Nowhere does the legislation say you must make a declaration to obtain the exemption, it is automatic if the criteria are satisfied. Which correlates with the line I quoted from https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles.

I suggest that the exemption declaration is a formality for the post office who expect insurance and MOT certificates. DVLA already know it's MOT exempt under the 40 year rule (computers you see) and it will go thru without a declaration. Of course, this is not likely to be tested very often 'cos most will want to use the 40 year rule to go historic and save on VED.


While we're at it, you earlier stated
Be aware that the extension of the 'historic vehicle registration' scheme year on year isn't automatic...
It is, see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... ty/enacted and, perhaps easier to read, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... ty/enacted.


Over to you...
No I don't want to argue I just feel it is desirable to provide as much information on a given subject in order vthat other individuals can make a reasoned judgement.

For what it's worth, you'll find the information about declaring a vehicle MOT exempt here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... Vcvlp97aZ0. It's a downloadable pdf document not an HTML page and is issued by the governmet 'asset publishing service' The link will give you a blank page but the document will download into your 'downloads folder... or Google 'vehicles-of-historical-interest-substantial-change-guidance'

In practice, of course, it's very simple. Fill in the V112 form and you know you're safe. It has three lines and a tick box and you can download it here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-from-mot it only takes a few seconds. A No-brainer really.

As to the information about the treasury needing to sign off the tax exemption, that's something I came across the last time I looked it up about 3 years ago and I didn't save the reference. When I get time, I will try to find it again but frankly, it's academic really... you can't get exemption until April in any given year anyway and by that time any formalities will have been resolved.

Anyway, as has been commented, enough has been said about this now... I don't intend to make any further comment until I find the further information...

Rob
Last edited by Rob Frankhamr on Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Bav » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:07 pm

Never has so much been said about so little. My sympathy is with Bav who might now regret asking.
All very useful stuff. I’ve got 2 to do. My BM and an old CG125. I’ll let you all know how I get on.


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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Tony the Skin » Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:19 am

Never has so much been said about so little. My sympathy is with Bav who might now regret asking.
All very useful stuff. I’ve got 2 to do. My BM and an old CG125. I’ll let you all know how I get on.


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Good luck. I have put 4 of mine on this system and I reckon that it saves me about £500 per year.
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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby Restless » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:00 pm


In practice, of course, it's very simple. Fill in the V112 form and you know you're safe. It has three lines and a tick box and you can download it here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-from-mot it only takes a few seconds. A No-brainer really.
The V112 form is useful even if not taken to the post office because it gives a description of what "substantially changed" means, and what it doesn't mean (albeit with a slightly confusing reference to motorcycles).

The ULEZ administration can be confusing, because although there is a clear statement at the TfL website that vehicles registered in the "Historic vehicle" tax class are exempt (unless used commercially), the "Check your vehicle" part of their website may still report that the charge applies, even though the site where you pay ULEZ will say that it doesn't. I wasted some time exchanging emails with TfL about this, but it's not worth the effort - they did admit that it can take some time for their system to be updated with fresh DVLA information about Historic status.

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Re: Tax and MOT exemption

Postby vmx1200 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:58 pm

they did admit that it can take some time for their system to be updated with fresh DVLA information about Historic status.
Well my bike has been a Historic Vehicle for 3 years and they still say the charge is £12.50 ](*,) ](*,)
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