Policeman with a grudge?

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milleplod
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Policeman with a grudge?

Postby milleplod » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:36 pm

This makes interesting reading - just what was the man thinking, I wonder? :shock:

https://www.bloodbikesdevon.org.uk/news ... not-guilty

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby P-K » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:16 am

I think the officer in this case was a tw@t
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby milleplod » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:34 am

I think the officer in this case was a tw@t
....to put it mildly! It would be interesting to see how his force deal with him.

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:25 am

I think the officer in this case was a tw@t
....to put it mildly! It would be interesting to see how his force deal with him.

Pete

Absolutely!

Unless theres something we aren't being told... now is that ever going to happen with the good old British Press?.. I can see no justification for any of his actions and he deserves to be flying a desk somewhere out of the public view.

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby philbuck » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:02 am

They'll probably just promote him out of the way !!
(Someone elses' problem then!!)
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Bav » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:37 am

As a Blood Biker myself I am somewhat gobsmacked. Where I live we always get a nod or a wave from the emergency services.


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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Jon S » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:54 am

What a CNUT.
According to the link, this particular CNUT seems to have exceeded his authority and has broken procedures especially travelling at high speed with under age children in the car. This MUST lead to a formal complaint followed by disciplinary action at least and hopefully ending in a change in employment, something more suited to his attitude, standing outside the local supermarket selling the Big Issue perhaps.

I do know of a local traffic cop who years ago had a bit of a vendetta against one individual driver which led to an official complaint. This t!"t ended up plodding a beat in one of the less desirable districts until he eventually resigned and got a job with no authority or promotion prospects what so ever.

I know the plod's are suffering being under manned, etc, for which I sympathise, and generally they do a fairly good job, but this kind of plod won't win any friends and his attitude does nothing for their PR
I really hate coppers who have 'attitude' problems.
Rant over
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby DEEP DIVER » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:04 pm

I wonder if he failed his motorbike test when he was younger and now hates all bikers?
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:20 pm

What a CNUT.
According to the link, this particular CNUT seems to have exceeded his authority and has broken procedures especially travelling at high speed with under age children in the car. This MUST lead to a formal complaint followed by disciplinary action at least and hopefully ending in a change in employment, something more suited to his attitude, standing outside the local supermarket selling the Big Issue perhaps.

I do know of a local traffic cop who years ago had a bit of a vendetta against one individual driver which led to an official complaint. This t!"t ended up plodding a beat in one of the less desirable districts until he eventually resigned and got a job with no authority or promotion prospects what so ever.

I know the plod's are suffering being under manned, etc, for which I sympathise, and generally they do a fairly good job, but this kind of plod won't win any friends and his attitude does nothing for their PR
I really hate coppers who have 'attitude' problems.
Rant over
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby kent_instructor10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:12 pm

Disgraceful. Every job has at least one.

I know some while ago there was dispute as to whether blood bikes could use or be fitted with blues and twos. Im not privvy to recent developments.

Its good imo that this came to court. With the exception of the fact that this poor chap had to endure the whole disgraceful behaviour and stress of a court case. But now there is stated case law where blood bikes can use b&t, as the judge stated the bike was for ambulance purposes. That is good news for all blood bikers.

Perhaps the officer objects to the air ambulances too, as they are a charity? Wonder if his arrogant opinion might change if it were a member of his family whose life was saved by these selfless volunteers.
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Bav » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:23 pm

Disgraceful. Every job has at least one.

I know some while ago there was dispute as to whether blood bikes could use or be fitted with blues and twos. Im not privvy to recent developments.

Its good imo that this came to court. With the exception of the fact that this poor chap had to endure the whole disgraceful behaviour and stress of a court case. But now there is stated case law where blood bikes can use b&t, as the judge stated the bike was for ambulance purposes. That is good news for all blood bikers.

Perhaps the officer objects to the air ambulances too, as they are a charity? Wonder if his arrogant opinion might change if it were a member of his family whose life was saved by these selfless volunteers.
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby andys » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:33 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't blood bikers exempt from the speed limit anyway ?

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Bav » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:42 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't blood bikers exempt from the speed limit anyway ?
No


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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby milleplod » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:48 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't blood bikers exempt from the speed limit anyway ?
Not specifically, no. The District Judge ruled that, for the purposes of an exemption, the blood bike was covered by the 'ambulance' definition. I think though, that because this was a Magistrates Court verdict, albeit with a judge presiding, it won't set a precedent for any future nonsense from idiots in uniform - stated cases come from the higher courts, unless things have changed.

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby kent_instructor10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:56 pm

It may change. I think you are right Pete, though the ruling was that the bike was used for ambulance purposes.
The exemption for speed limits is fire police and ambulance purposes.
I also believe there was an amendment to legislation which provided an exemption for any vehicle which was responding to an emergency request by nhs ambulance service.

Its time there was a national agreed policy which all agencies are aware of so that no ambulance or blood volunteer has to endure this upset again.
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby milleplod » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:02 pm

It may change. I think you are right Pete, though the ruling was that the bike was used for ambulance purposes.
The exemption for speed limits is fire police and ambulance purposes.
I also believe there was an amendment to legislation which provided an exemption for any vehicle which was responding from a request by nhs ambulance service.

Its time there was a national agreed policy which all agencies are aware of so that no ambulance or blood volunteer has to endure this upset again.
Yep, just found it! The exemption "applies in relation to a vehicle that, although not being used for ambulance purposes, is being used for the purpose of providing a response to an emergency at the request of an NHS ambulance service".

You're right regarding a national policy, its long overdue.
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Jon S » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:34 pm

From what I've been told by our local blood biker team the riders/drivers are required to hold IAM or other advance rider/driver qualification to ride or drive liveried vehicles. Even with advance training they ARE NOT authorised to exceed speed limits, cross red lights, or any other privilege that the emergency services have when using blues and two's even though there vehicles are suitably equipped. The blues and two's are only there to 'inform' other drivers that they are in a bit of a hurry.
Personally I'll give any blue or green light the right of way and will get out of there way ASAP if I can.

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Bav » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:27 pm

From what I've been told by our local blood biker team the riders/drivers are required to hold IAM or other advance rider/driver qualification to ride or drive liveried vehicles. Even with advance training they ARE NOT authorised to exceed speed limits, cross red lights, or any other privilege that the emergency services have when using blues and two's even though there vehicles are suitably equipped. The blues and two's are only there to 'inform' other drivers that they are in a bit of a hurry.
Personally I'll give any blue or green light the right of way and will get out of there way ASAP if I can.

Jon S
You are spot on. I wish everyone gave us right of way. It’s unbelievable that people pull out on you without seeing you even though you look just like a police motorcyclist!


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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby milleplod » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:49 pm

The worrying thing is that it will undoubtedly happen again. Looking further into it, the bit I quoted above regarding the exemption is wrong, its an amendment to the Road Safety Act of 2006 that's not even been enacted yet, despite it dating back to 2012! :shock: Presumably, there's no political will to sort it out, so the volunteers are going to have to be careful how they interpret this one - it won't give them any protection at all, although hopefully most forces will continue to operate with common sense!

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby HughMcQ » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:21 pm

From what I've read its pretty rare for Blood bikers to be allowed to use blues & twos. Only in very specific cases and only if deemed necessary (not by the rider) by whoever it is allocates the job. Something I've been thinking about signing up for but need to pass IAM or Rospa first.

One blood runner died whilst on a job in Teesside a year or so ago -
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... n-13541635

The actions of that policeman is an insult to all the volunteers.

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Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Bav » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:28 pm

Unfortunately another rider was killed on duty in Lancaster in May

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-engla ... e-44028678

We don’t use blue lights anymore in our patch. They tend to make some drivers slam their brakes on rather than make way. It’s safer just to make a well executed overtake sometimes.


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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby philbuck » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:52 pm

Blood bikes are NOT emergency vehicle per se, thus they cannot have blue lights and music. End of! Some Blood bike groups DO use their blue and twos and their riders claim to have had relevant training, but I find this hard to believe, both legally and practically.

Our Blood Bike group has 14 bikes, about half of which have blue lights and music fitted, but that's because they come fitted with them from the factory. Our policy is NOT to use them, because the ramifications of using them, and the wheel falling off, leads to all sorts of problems, such as staying at the scene of an accident, calling out another bike to deliver the product you now can't delevery, (for whatever reason), etc.
Personally I think this is the right decision, as from my experience of using blues and twos on cars/bikes/vans, we would gain very little advantage on the bike, and potentially lose a lot.

The Judge in the case we're talking about, thought long and hard about the bike using the blues and twos, and decided that under these extreme circumstances (ie "life at threat"), then the bike was deemed to be an ambulance, which IS an emergency vehicle, thus the use of the lights and music was deemed appropriate.

From my understanding, the unfortunate Lancaster Blood Biker was using blues and twos.

In my opinion, and from my experience, using blue lights and sirens is fraught with danger. It may seem great when you first do it, but you soon learn that the muppets that move amongst us haven't got a clue what's going on around them, and despite you trying you're utmost to read their minds, you can't predict every stupid move they're going to make. That's when the wheel falls off.
Just my opinion.
And for what it's worth, the cop was a dickhead !!
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby kent_instructor10 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:35 pm

I think its a shame that in a so called first world country that such an important service had to be created by volunteers and run as a charity, and i feel that about the air ambulance too.

Dont get me wrong, i admire and appreciate what these people do, and its invaluable. But its typical that the powers that be see fit to shirk the responsibility and funding of what should all, imo, be part of the nhs. Bring it all in house, training, regulation, do it properly, then empower people to do the job properly. Have the service part employed and part volunteer if necessary. (Weve had special constables for years, and now, out of necessity, lack of manpower and funding, they drive marked cars and blue light respond. Unheard of some years ago).
So blood bikes arent emergency vehicles. Well they should be if they are saving lives. Legislate for them to be emergency vehicles under ambulance classification, train riders to blue light standard, do what it takes.

Until we have proper joined up working with all persons involved in public protection, we will always have problems. Is it really that difficult to sort out?!

Its the similar with Highways Agency traffic officers. Lack of traffic police, so the responsibility is farmed out to newly created HATOs. Then, the realisation sets in that they dont have enough power to do some of the roles effectively, so gradually their vehicles get some extra lights, then a different horn, then a few more legal powers, but stop short of being police officers.

Take PCSOs. Nothing against them, well meaning, helping the community, but essentially with little power, yes thats increasing, but with the cost of training and wages, why not have a police officer in the first place??

And of course, what we are so good at in this country is when well meaning decent people put themselves out to help the community, as in this case, some inane fool masquerading as a police officer creates hell and that poor individual then has to endure the long drawn out lottery and uncertainty of the British legal system, often on their own. This has even been in the case of police officers engaged in pursuit and response work when any sane person can see there is no case to answer. The uk seems to have some strange desire to persecute people trying to do a difficult job against the odds in many cases, i dont get it.

It just seems to me that this country has lost its way, so much seems poorly thought out and executed and done on the cheap, then its constant sticking plasters or head in the sand as things dont work that Mr Average had pointed out in the beginning.

Just my opinion for what its worth.
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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Nate » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:04 am

In the incident referred to, one person was clearly impersonating a police officer, while the other was delivering urgent medical supplies...

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Re: Policeman with a grudge?

Postby Mjolinor » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:15 am

In the incident referred to, one person was clearly impersonating a police officer, while the other was delivering urgent medical supplies...
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