Sat Navs

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andys
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Sat Navs

Postby andys » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:39 pm

Sorry if this has been covered before.
If it has perhaps I could have a link.
I was just about to pull the trigger on a Tom Tom 500 but am put off be consistently bad reviews.
Real world opinions on whatever you're using gratefully received.

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peter
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby peter » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:58 pm

I have no experience with TomTom but I do have some Garmin experience.
When riding small roads, the Zumo 550 is still the best for motorcycling but it is end of life for some years now.
The Zumo 595 is available in different versions. I have a Travel Edition. The setback on this one is that you have a lifetime update for the 595 but not for the PC (even the reseller didn't know about that and provided a workaround). Another minus on the current Garmin devicescomes up when you try to load pre made routes. The number of points for the 595 is about 25 "hard points" (don't know exact) if you have more points you will have to convert them into "soft points". A problem the Zumo 550 didn't had and a problem old TomTom devices had but seems solved on the current ones.
While riding you need to get to the "hard points". When Off-route you will be send to the last "hard point" you've missed. If you miss some soft points you will be send to the next "hard point". With the 550 you could just ignore the sending back and it would automaticly send you to the next point.
The best way to transfer a route to a Zumo 595 is first to use Basecamp to convert it to a track, send the track to the 595 and let it convert to a route. When riding the route you should recalculation to "off" to prevent recalculating and sending you direct to the end skipping the rest of the route.
An alternative for the Zumo 595 is the Montana I have a 600. This one is designed with outdoor activities in mind (walking, cycling, geocashing) but can also used on a motorcycle. The Montana has no voice to guide you, just the screen and in a car mount some beeps. I always use only the screen of a GPS. I find it irritating to hear a voice telling me 4 or more times to get the next exit, turn left, right or whatever.
If you like to be told where to go, you need to check wether you like it to be BlueTooth or wired.

The question is how do you intend to use the GPS.
Is it to get the fastest route from A to B ? Choose what ever one that looks good enough, probably the cheepest. When the map is out of date, it is time to get a newer, faster GPS. You could also use a smartphone (check if you need to be online all the time when you use the map, and if you like your location being public).
Do you want to ride pre made routes, you will need one that can load those, there is a choice of devices from both TomTom and Garmin that can do that.
Do you want to plan a detailed route with the need of pointing it out on a map, you will need a program for the PC/Mac.
Garmin has Basecamp, TomTom also has a program (used to be TYRE). See what program you like to make your route with.
Basecamp uses the map on the PC or the map on the connected GPS. I have no experience with the TomTom program.
In the Netherlands Basecamp seems to be the standard with the motorcycling clubs.
When I started with GPS, I had the Zumo 550 and it came with the MapSource program.
MapSource would place the routes and tracks in a map. Probably you would use a map in "documents".
Basecamp puts everything in it's own database, somewhere between it's programfiles.
If you have a action camera (VIRB), Basecamp will download the pictures and also put them in this database making it very big in a very short while.
You can't access your data from the explorer, you will have to export them from Basecamp.
Peter
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby andys » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:13 pm

Wow
:shock:
Thanks for that, even though most of it went straight over my head.
To be honest the function that appealed to me with the Tom Tom is its "plan a thrill" option.
Basically it will take you the most bike suitable route to the destination you have selected.
Other than that I'm happy with something that will just get me to where I want to be with blue tooth voice prompts.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Mjolinor » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:59 pm

Tom Tom used to be good but they are a really bad company when it comes to support and honesty. Long ago I would have recommended them to anyone but I would piss on a burning one now.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Jaythro » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:10 am

Tom Tom are a Pain with a definitive end of life for much of their hardware despite it still being able to deal with Newer Maps

I have a Garmin 395LM which is small enough to fit in your pocket if you get off the bike but big enough to read on the road

The only way I think you can make the Garmin to give you a more interesting route and how I suspect Tom Tom do it is to "Avoid" motorways and Toll Roads in your route choice
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby R90S » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:44 am

I have a Tom-tom, it works for me. On the web page for route planning you can choose different amounts of hilly and curvy. It doesn't just remove Toll roads or Motorways. One feature I like is that in average speed areas it gives you your average. You soon realise that people drive too slow through these areas. I have had issues in 'Scottish weather on non faired bikes where the thing reboots when soaking wet. On the R90 it is tucked behind the fairing, so not a problem.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Jockboxer » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:36 am

The only advantages of a dedicated bike gps are ...

1. The ability to pre-plan and then load up routes and waypoints via laptop or other pc.

2. They're waterproof.

If you don't need the above then using a car unit would be much cheaper. There are work arounds for the waterproofing issue also.

An older bike unit is also a cheaper option. You can download free (and legal) mapping on the the internet. I currently have a Zumo 550 for that purpose although I bought a sh 660 which has lifetime maps.

You pays yer money ...

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Richard(Sande)Sanders » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:08 pm

I have two Garmin sat navs, a NUVI 2200 which I use at work, & a NUVI 54 which
I use on my bikes. The 2200 is at least ten years old & while discontinued is still
supported with regular map updates. The 54 came with lifetime maps, & is used
in a waterproof case. I would recommend a Garmin, whether you choose a bike
specific model, or save a fair amount of money & use a car type model in a
waterproof case is up to you.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Jaythro » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:39 pm

I think there are issues with Car Sat navs and seeing in Daylight whereas more modern GPS have auto dim / brighten functions similar to the phones
"Put your Ass on a motorcycle and ride with an attitude and the "Grim Reaper" will ride in your shadow!"

Islandmagee in case you're interested?

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby peter » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:55 pm

In addition of point 1 of Jockboxer:

In the Netherlands most the Tour clubs will make routes. A committy plans when to ride the routes. In this way almost every weekend there are one or more routes to ride. A tour club will ride their own route or go and visit and other club and ride their route. For this to work you need to be able to exchange routes between the devices and a laptop. Everyone is supposed to ride on their own (with their own copy of the route for legal reasons) and responsible for their own actions. In practise most of the time the rider in front leads the way and the others (max 10) will follow. When the group is cut at a trafficlight there is no direct need for the part in front to stop as every one has the route on his GPS. Probably they will stop at a convenient point.

I still have my Zumo 550, it will be mounted on my new bike.
I also have a Montana 600, I have been using it for walking and lately during a testride a bike.
. (it has an easy replacable accu and can also work on 3x AAA batteries)
On my R1150R I use my Zumo 595 TE, this bike is mainly used for longdistance, holidays across europe.
I also use the 595 in the car as it has lane-assist, on motorways it tells you the lane you need to ride in when there is a junction.

If you think you need traffic avoidence, some of the GPS devices are able to recieve traffic information, direct or via a connected smartphone.
A smartphone with (Google) maps is also an option, it will not only tell you when there is a jam on the route, it will suggest a way around the problem.
Peter
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:18 am

Tom Tom used to be good but they are a really bad company when it comes to support and honesty. Long ago I would have recommended them to anyone but I would piss on a burning one now.
I have a Tomtom 550 myself, bought it a couple of years ago. It was a 500 but after I returned it due to the common ‘condensation inside the screen’ problem they sent me a brand new 550.

It works well for what I want, but has a terrible reputation for not doing what it is supposed to do. It won’t link to iPhones, so you can’t link it and get traffic updates, or receive phone calls, texts etc, but it does work well with Android phones. I’ve tried none of that myself, I just use it for basic navigating.

Creating and putting detailed routes into it, I have done some of that using the basic TomTom ‘My drive’ app, but nothing too complex.

You really need to study the instruction book for a while to get the best out of it, which is something lots of people don’t seem to do, judging by some of the questions that come up on the TomTom Facebook groups.

It’s the only bike gps I have used, so I have nothing to really compare it to. Plus it’s a bit spendy, at £400++ I bought it after using my car TT lashed to the bike screen for a short European trip, and realised just how useful it is now that roads are so complex.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Mjolinor » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:26 am


now that roads are so complex.
I never thought about that before but you are right.

When did road planners get so stupid?

One of those gradual things that sneaks up on you with little changes.

Traffic lights on roundabouts.
One lane at a time on cross roads.
Lane markings that start before signposts at junctions.
I am sure a million others.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:48 am

The only advantages of a dedicated bike gps are ...

1. The ability to pre-plan and then load up routes and waypoints via laptop or other pc.

2. They're waterproof.

If you don't need the above then using a car unit would be much cheaper. There are work arounds for the waterproofing issue also.

...


I beg to differ. I took my car TT along on my first trip to France in 30 years, and though it came in incredibly useful it was also very hard to see in sunny weather. And when I slipped a ziplock bag over it in rain, it was unreadable.

When I bought the dedicated bike TT I was worried it would be the same, on a sunny day, but even though the screen is nearly half the size of the car unit, it was far brighter and I have no problems seeing it.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:51 am


now that roads are so complex.
I never thought about that before but you are right.

When did road planners get so stupid?

One of those gradual things that sneaks up on you with little changes.

Traffic lights on roundabouts.
One lane at a time on cross roads.
Lane markings that start before signposts at junctions.
I am sure a million others.
I tried to get by with map books, on the trip I mention in the last post, but it was impossible. French roads desperately try to steer all traffic to the motorways, and along with the changing of road numbers from province to province, I was repeatedly getting lost, for the first three days. Mounting the car sat nav made it so much easier.

‘Back in the day’ I could navigate France/Europe simply by following road signs to the next major city and then follow ‘autres directions’ around it, until I spied the road to the next city. Not any more, everything is different now.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:57 am

The big problem with sat navs is you never see loads of places that you were not looking for.

I found the Pont Du Gard like that while trying to get to Agde after taking the road from Paris to Avignon.

One of the good memories that I would never have gained had I used a sat nav.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby george baker » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:54 am

lights on roundabouts.
One lane at a time on cross roads.
Lane markings that start before signposts at junctions.
I am sure a million others.
It's all of those and more trying to ride the a6 from Manchester to Carlisle, The signs all push you back on the M6

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:40 pm

The big problem with sat navs is you never see loads of places that you were not looking for.

I found the Pont Du Gard like that while trying to get to Agde after taking the road from Paris to Avignon.

One of the good memories that I would never have gained had I used a sat nav.

A little 'thing' I discovered last week on a trip to Wales, from the Midlands. Instead of picking a destination I simply set my sat nav to 2d map, and then turned down any and every road that pointed west. Like you say, I discovered some very interesting roads, and a reservoir I'd never been to, Vyrnwy, and then ended up a single lane track over some pretty obscure mountain area.

If ever I get across the waters again I may just try that in Europe, head 'south' rather than picking a destination. :grin:
Last edited by King Herald on Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:49 pm

I did the 'head south' from Calais once. Every time I saw a sign for Paris I took the road 90 degrees away from it. Ended up on the start grid at Le Man. Spent the night in a small hotel / boarding house thing overlooking a huge valley half way between Paris and the Pyrenees. I think they have built the mother of all bridges over that valley now but I have never seen it.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby gogs01 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:33 pm

..... half way between Paris and the Pyrenees. I think they have built the mother of all bridges over that valley now but I have never seen it.

Could that be Viaduc de Millau ? If so, you should make the effort to go and see it. You have to pay a small toll to cross it but it is definitely worth it - it's spectacular ! There's a visitor centre in the valley below, and looking up at it is also spectacular.
The A75 is my favourite autoroute for when I have to cover distance through France.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:48 pm

That's probably it. I know we ended up at Carcassone and sort of followed the canal du midi back to the med.

Sat navs have ruined all that, things have to happen too quickly now, the days of setting off after breakfast and stopping at the nearest sleeping place to where you got tired. Everything has to be planned.

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby george baker » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:17 pm

Hi
I think sat navs are good for

getting away from the overnight stop -- on to the open road
getting back on track -- after you have pottered up an interesting road
getting back on track -- after you have ended up lost in a town
last mile or 2 -- getting to the overnight stop

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Re: Sat Navs

Postby Rob Frankhamr » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:57 pm

Hi
I think sat navs are good for

getting away from the overnight stop -- on to the open road
getting back on track -- after you have pottered up an interesting road
getting back on track -- after you have ended up lost in a town
last mile or 2 -- getting to the overnight stop

George
I agree, Sat Navs are wonderful iunsurance for all of those purposes but they certainly take a lot of the interest and a little bit of the fun out of riding by the 'seat of your pants' and 'following your nose'... except, of course when they don't For instance the time a new (to me) sat nav took me down the same dead end 3 times by 3 seperate and varied routes because it couldn't be persuaded that the road to where I wanted to go didn't actually go through that gate and across that field full of cows...

Or the time the same Sat Nav took me 40 miles out of my way to avoid a traffic jam caused by an accident before decanting me at the other end of the same jam heading in the opposite direction.

Rob
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:56 pm

Could that be Viaduc de Millau ? If so, you should make the effort to go and see it. You have to pay a small toll to cross it but it is definitely worth it - it's spectacular ! There's a visitor centre in the valley below, and looking up at it is also spectacular.
The A75 is my favourite autoroute for when I have to cover distance through France.

I've been over it a couple of times, it is pretty impressive. Mind you, the motorway up from Beziers, N85 I think, is a beautiful sweeping ride through the mountains, 1000 metres above sea level. Absolute bliss on a warm sunny day, I was just riding along, gobsmacked at the scenery and the sheer perfect ride.
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby gogs01 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:17 am

......I've been over it a couple of times, it is pretty impressive. Mind you, the motorway up from Beziers, N85 I think, is a beautiful sweeping ride through the mountains, 1000 metres above sea level. Absolute bliss on a warm sunny day, I was just riding along, gobsmacked at the scenery and the sheer perfect ride.
.
The N85 would be the Route Napoleon - a very popular and interesting ride, further East than Béziers.

From Béziers, it would be more likely to be the bottom end of the A75, unless you were heading for Castres on the D612 (but, of course, that's not motorway). That area of France is full of interesting roads through gorgeous scenery - let's hope we can get back to them in 2021 !
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Re: Sat Navs

Postby King Herald » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:09 am

It is indeed the A75, I just checked the map. I had stayed overnight in a beautiful big old B&B, Les Volets Bleu, near Narbonne, not Beziers.

You can see why I need a gps now. :grin:

I stayed there the following year too, lovely place, right on the side of a big canal.
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