Petrol in oil G650GS

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Royster
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Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Royster » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:40 am

Hi Guys and Girls
I am a new member just joined. I have a 2011 BMW G650 GS I noticed a down turn in performance about 6 weeks ago and a real big flat spot in acceleration especialy coming down the gears and then pulling away again. I was check the oil when I noticed it smelt of petrol, on further investigation the oil was discolored and appeared thin ( was sure it was contaminated with petrol) I called my local bike garage where I got her serviced and he advised me to go to a main dealer. I called BMW Motorad at Alton and booked it in for 24 May. I got the bike recovered there with my breakdown Cover. I received a call late that afternoon advising me they had found nothing but advised a 24000 service (bike as currently done 21000 miles) I agreed to the service but now still waiting for the bike to be ready)

The guy that serviced the bike thought it might be an injector fault?
Should I receive the bike back and still have the same problem due to BMW not finding anything I would like to pick your brains/knowledge for likely causes and remidies

Best regards

Roy

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:22 am

Hi Roy,

Do you normally service the bike yourself or always take it to a dealer?

A faulty injector is a possibility and can be checked fairly easily by yourself.

The injectors are 'fired' by DC voltage pulses coming from the Engine Control Unit (ECU) in response to timing pulses from the timing sensors (HES).

Normally the injectors open and close in response to these DC firing pulses.

An injector is an electromechanical device whereby a voltage applied to a solenoid coil pulls a needle valve off its seating allowing pressurised fuel to pass and spray from the nozzle.
When the voltage is removed, an internal spring closes the needle valve so shutting off the fuel spray.

The Fuel Rail connected to the injectors is around 35 psi so if an injector is 'fired' (opens) the fuel is sprayed under this pressure into the engine inlet port tract.

The injector is normally open for only a few milliseconds before the DC pulse is removed and the injector closes so cutting off the fuel injection.

If an injector is held open (fired) due to its needle valve sticking, then the fuel will be continuously injected onto the engine while the engine is running and this over-fuelling will wash down via the cylinder bores into the sump.
This is not good as the engine lubrication will be seriously affected.
The engine performance will also be affected as the air/fuel ratio will be incorrect and result in loss of power and poor starting.

Also, if there is wiring/circuit problem, the DC voltage to the injector may be on constantly so keeping the injector open continually.

You can roughly check the injectors are functioning properly as follows:

1. Listen for the operating clicks.
With the engine idling, put the handle of a long screwdriver to one ear and the tip of the screwdriver on the body of the injector.
You should hear a continuous clicking sound as the injector operates and releases.
If there is no clicking sound or it is erratic then the injector could be stuck/sticking.

2. Spray check.
Remove each injector, point it into a bucket and crank over the engine - you should see each injector emit a similar spray pattern which can be more closely inspected by placing a piece of card close to the injector nozzle.

CAUTION: Wear eye and glove protection! Fire risk - keep spray clear of hot engine parts and any sparks!

As your bike is still at the dealers for a service, you might consider asking the dealer to check the injectors at the same time.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

Royster
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Royster » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:14 pm

Hi GG

Thanks for the advice, taken on board. I will discuss with the dealer. I do not service the bike myself I do not have the skills

Regards

Roy

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:39 am

For completeness on this thread, here are a couple of YouTube videos on injector testing and cleaning.
It shows how the spray pattern is checked.

It is shown using the BMW R1100RT bike but the principle is the same for all fuel injected bikes:
https://youtu.be/q2nBqR463W8

Also: https://youtu.be/rUUgR94drxg

Let us know the outcome of the problem on your bike when the dealer has fixed it.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

Royster
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Royster » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:38 pm

Email received from dealer today below, I have asked if they have found the fault that caused the problem and awaiting a reply.

Hi Roy,

We’ve been carrying out the service on your bike, part of that was to check the valve clearances. When we took the cylinder head cover off to do this we found that the top of both cam shafts have suffered deep corrosion and so need to be replaced. We think this has likely happened because the fuels washed away the oil on the camshafts and then moisture has then sat on the metal.

The cost of replacing the camshafts is £414inc vat and will need to be ordered from Germany so will take up to 7days to arrive.

Please let me know if you are happy to proceed and I’ll get the parts ordered.

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:39 pm

Hi Roy,

What is more important is for the dealer to find out the cause of the 'fuels washed away the oil on the camshafts' or the same thing or worse will happen again.

Is this bike under warranty? If so, this should cover the cost of any necessary repair.

If not, I would be less concerned about spending money on any expensive 'corroded' camshaft replacements especially if the bike is running OK at the moment (apart from 'a real big flat spot in acceleration especialy coming down the gears and then pulling away again') than finding the cause of the oil contamination and poor running which appears very likely to be a faulty injector and which they have not checked for.

I can't help feeling that this should be your dealer's priority as well and for them to suggest replacing both the camshafts without investigating further leaves much to be desired in terms of customer service, ability and diagnosis especially since a faulty injector has already been suggested as the cause of the problem.

I would therefore pay this dealer only for the service work carried out (which they advised was required).

I would NOT pay for any camshafts to be replaced.

If the cause of the oil contamination has not been found, then RIDE the bike to a good local independent dealer (the forum can help here) for a proper diagnosis.

I would not be unduly concerned with the reported 'deep corrosion' on the camshafts if the bike is already running fine without excessive valve noise occurring.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Mike D » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:08 am

+1 on what Ced has said.

Without the correct root cause analysis, replacing expensive parts is money down the drain!

Mike

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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Mjolinor » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 am

You need to take some pictures of the cams and post them. I have never seen corrosion on a cam that will affect the running. Pitting on the cam or follower surface does not affect anything and will actually hold more oil on the surface.

At this age UK law may be on your side. Things you buy have to be fit for purpose and last as long as they are expected to. I do think that anyone should reasonably expect that cams and followers could be expected to have a life expectancy of more than eight years and 20k miles, this has been proven over and over again. It may be a long struggle but I would get onto BMW, they may just stand the cost to stop you talking about the failure.

Royster
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby Royster » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:09 am

Thanks all for the feedback. I will discuss with the dealer

Regards

Royster

debbie2669
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suitability for a short arse

Postby debbie2669 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:45 am

Hi, Looking at buying a GS650 2010 within next 2 days but as its on Ebay I have not had chance to try. I am 5ft 2"! please could anyone advise if i would be able to touch the floor on this? I am willing to get seat modified if possible. Kind regards

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george baker
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Re: Petrol in oil G650GS

Postby george baker » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:08 pm

Hi debbie2669
welcome, where are you based?

It depends on your inside leg more than height, I think there is a low seat option, if not, you could have the seat modified.

Why not start a new thread all of your own to keep the information together?

George
Member 21, R100R, K75 and a Hyosung 250 FOR SALE


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