2006 R1200gsa not turning over

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Ruralman
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2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Thu May 10, 2018 1:00 pm

Hi Guys and Gals,
My bike wouldn’t turnover this morning!
Should I check:-
Earth cable
Side stand switch
What else?
Regards
Keith



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2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu May 10, 2018 2:28 pm

Hi Keith,

1. Switch your headlight AND the indicators On for a couple of minutes - are they working?

If not, clean the battery leads and terminals to bright metal and try again.

If not, is the battery flat? Connect a spare headlight or indicator bulb across the battery terminals to check.

2. Try and start the bike - can you hear a 'Click'?
Is the click coming from the Starter Relay and/or the Solenoid on the Starter Motor?

3. Pull in the Clutch lever and see if it will start.

4. BYPASS THE STARTING CIRCUIT:

Bike on Mainstand, in Neutral, Ignition Off.

Disconnect the thin Black wire with the spade terminal from the Starter Motor (terminal 50).
Using a Test Wire, TAP +12v from the Battery + terminal onto the Starter Motor MALE blade terminal 50 (the terminal the Black female spade wire came off).

This should operate the Starter Solenoid which will operate the Starter Motor.

If the engine cranks over, it may not fire up however with the Ignition On if there is a fault in the starting interlocks e.g. sidestand, kill and Neutral switches.

5. Jump a car battery (car engine NOT running) across the bike battery using jump leads in case the bike battery has failed.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Thu May 10, 2018 4:05 pm

Hi Keith,

1. Switch your headlight AND the indicators On for a couple of minutes - are they working?

If not, clean the battery leads and terminals to bright metal and try again.

If not, is the battery flat? Connect a spare headlight or indicator bulb across the battery terminals to check.

2. Try and start the bike - can you hear a 'Click'?
Is the click coming from the Starter Relay and/or the Solenoid on the Starter Motor?

3. Pull in the Clutch lever and see if it will start.

4. BYPASS THE STARTING CIRCUIT:

Bike on Mainstand, in Neutral, Ignition Off.

Disconnect the thin Black wire with the spade terminal from the Starter Motor (terminal 50).
Using a Test Wire, TAP +12v from the Battery + terminal onto the Starter Motor MALE blade terminal 50 (the terminal the Black female spade wire came off).

This should operate the Starter Solenoid which will operate the Starter Motor.

If the engine cranks over, it may not fire up however with the Ignition On if there is a fault in the starting interlocks e.g. sidestand, kill and Neutral switches.

5. Jump a car battery (car engine NOT running) across the bike battery using jump leads in case the bike battery has failed.
Hi Ced,
Headlight works, no click coming from the starter, not getting the ecu power up sound, I’m at school at present so can’t check anything yet and I’ve 11 miles to run tonight so it’ll be tomorrow before I can check things out. Back riding the K1200rs until I get this sorted and of course the brakes on the k are sticking!
Regards
Keith


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2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu May 10, 2018 4:25 pm

That is useful info especially no Fuel Pump priming sound.
I'll check the wiring diagram later tonight Keith to see what might be wrong.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Thu May 10, 2018 6:16 pm

Hi Keith,

With the R1200GSA being CANbus, it's more difficult to fault without having a Diagnostic Tester such as a GS911 or the BMW Diagnostic Tester (dealer only) to read the Fault Code/s.
The BMW Club Tool Hire section has a GS911 tester available to members.
A Diagnostic Test and printout by a dealer will cost around £60.


I've had a look at the wiring diagrams and noted the following:


1. The Fuel Pump is controlled from its own sub-module; Fuel Pump Controller (FPC) connected to the Engine Control Unit.
The FPC appears to have had problems in the past.
2. The Gear Position Sensor is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
3. The Sidestand Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
4. The Clutch Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
5. The Kill Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
6. The Start Button is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
7. The Starter Relay coil is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
8. There is an Immobiliser Antenna (Ring Antenna/EWS) connected to the Engine Control Unit. If it fails you will have 'EWS' displayed on the dash - see link below:
http://motorcycleinfo.co.uk/index0d47.h ... eId=347943
Note: "….The max communication distance between Key transponder and the Ring antenna is just short of an inch (2cm) and that is the reason why there should NEVER be any other Keys with transponders in close proximity as they would both be powered by the Ring antenna’s magnetic field and both try to communicate, thus essentially corrupting each others signals..."

I think that the Ring Antenna was the subject of a BMW Recall - see link below:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/archive/in ... 81224.html

Also see:
https://www.motorcycleparts-hornig.com/ ... tenna.html

And, link to HexCode GS911 forum Fault Code 10444:
http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php?topic=57.0
Note: The 'Fuse' referred to is an electronic fuse activated by the CANbus when it sees a fault in that circuit. The Fuse is automatically restored to normal when the fault has been cleared and reset by the CANbus.


Questions:
1. When the Ignition is switched On, do you get the Oil, Charge, Neutral and ABS lights showing on the dash panel?

2. Was the bike on its Sidestand or Mainstand when you tried to start it?

3. Does the Fuel Pump prime when the Side Stand is UP?

4. Do you have an Alarm System fitted?

See how it goes!
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Thu May 10, 2018 9:20 pm

Hi Keith,

With the R1200GSA being CANbus, it's more difficult to fault without having a Diagnostic Tester such as a GS911 or the BMW Diagnostic Tester (dealer only) to read the Fault Code/s.
The BMW Club Tool Hire section has a GS911 tester available to members.
A Diagnostic Test and printout by a dealer will cost around £60.


I've had a look at the wiring diagrams and noted the following:


1. The Fuel Pump is controlled from its own sub-module; Fuel Pump Controller (FPC) connected to the Engine Control Unit.
The FPC appears to have had problems in the past.
2. The Gear Position Sensor is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
3. The Sidestand Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
4. The Clutch Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
5. The Kill Switch is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
6. The Start Button is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
7. The Starter Relay coil is connected direct to the Engine Control Unit.
8. There is an Immobiliser Antenna (Ring Antenna/EWS) connected to the Engine Control Unit. If it fails you will have 'EWS' displayed on the dash - see link below:
http://motorcycleinfo.co.uk/index0d47.h ... eId=347943
Note: "….The max communication distance between Key transponder and the Ring antenna is just short of an inch (2cm) and that is the reason why there should NEVER be any other Keys with transponders in close proximity as they would both be powered by the Ring antenna’s magnetic field and both try to communicate, thus essentially corrupting each others signals..."

I think that the Ring Antenna was the subject of a BMW Recall - see link below:
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/archive/in ... 81224.html

Also see:
https://www.motorcycleparts-hornig.com/ ... tenna.html

And, link to HexCode GS911 forum Fault Code 10444:
http://forum.hexcode.co.za/forum/index.php?topic=57.0
Note: The 'Fuse' referred to is an electronic fuse activated by the CANbus when it sees a fault in that circuit. The Fuse is automatically restored to normal when the fault has been cleared and reset by the CANbus.


Questions:
1. When the Ignition is switched On, do you get the Oil, Charge, Neutral and ABS lights showing on the dash panel?

2. Was the bike on its Sidestand or Mainstand when you tried to start it?

3. Does the Fuel Pump prime when the Side Stand is UP?

4. Do you have an Alarm System fitted?

See how it goes!
Hi Ced,
That’s me back from my run, thanks for all the info I’ll check it out tomorrow.
There’s no alarm system, and the bike was on the side stand, the usual lights show in the dash, there’s no ABS, not sure whether the key has a transponder in it.

Regards
Keith


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Keith Hillier
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2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 11, 2018 3:23 pm

Hi Ced,
Had a look this afternoon, managed to get the bike going by fiddling with the gear leaver, it appears that Neutral is not registering correctly electronically, although the gear is in neutral it does not register electronically, when the side stand is down the bike stops or will not start.
Regards
Keith


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----------------------------------
2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri May 11, 2018 3:43 pm

Hi Keith,

Glad you appear to have found the cause of the problem which is not made easy on CANbus bikes unless you have the GS911 or the BMW Computer Diagnostic.

The Sidestand has a 2-position Switch (as on the R1150 Series) which I believe functions as follows:

Sidestand Up - At Ignition On, Ignition and Fuel systems On.
Engine can only be cranked over when in Neutral OR the Clutch Lever switch operated.

Sidestand Down - At Ignition On, Ignition and Fuel systems only On when in Neutral.
Engine can only be cranked over when in Neutral OR the Clutch Lever switch operated.
The engine will keep running when the Sidestand Is put Down from the Up position PROVIDING the gearbox is in Neutral.

If the GPI Neutral Switch is NOT working when the gearbox is in Neutral, this would explain why the engine cuts out when the Sidestand is put down when the engine is running.

I am not familiar with the R1200 bikes.
However, there is a likely chance that the Gear Position Indicator (GPI) system including Neutral is the same as on the R1150 series whereby a GPI Switch mounted on the rear of the Gearbox sends a combination of ABC codes to the RID on the 1100 & 1150 Series and to the Engine Control Unit on the 1200 Series to indicate the gear position.

If so on your R1200, the bad news is that the Swing Arm will need to be removed in order to replace the GPI Switch.

Check on your Haynes/Clymer Manual if this assumption is correct.

If the problem is only with the Neutral part of the switch, I am wondering if the engine can be cranked over and fired up by pulling in the Clutch lever WITH THE SIDESTAND UP.
This will bypass the GPI Neutral Switch by means of the Clutch Switch allowing the Starter Relay to operate and crank over the engine while the Sidestand being UP will power up the Ignition and Fuel systems.
If that doesn't work then your Clutch Switch could be faulty - if it is working, then you should be able to CRANK over the engine in ANY gear.
It may not work that way with CANbus but worth a try!

Jaythro or others here on the Forum may also have worked on the R1200 Series and be able to comment on the problem.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 11, 2018 4:12 pm

Hi Ced,
I’ve tried pulling in the clutch when the bike was not starting and it made no difference, this afternoon I put the bike on the main stand with the side stand up, tried to start it of course it wouldn’t start.
Tried all the indicators and they were working ok, I noticed that the N was not showing in the display after fiddling with the gear lever I manage to get the bike turning over but as soon as the side stand goes down the bike stops, at least I have a way of getting the bike started and anything further can wait.
Regards
Keith


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2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri May 11, 2018 4:44 pm

Keith,

I added a bit to my last post which you may not have seen:

"....If the problem is only with the Neutral part of the switch, I am wondering if the engine can be cranked over and fired up by pulling in the Clutch lever WITH THE SIDESTAND UP.
This will bypass the GPI Neutral Switch by means of the Clutch Switch allowing the Starter Relay to operate and crank over the engine while the Sidestand being UP will power up the Ignition and Fuel systems.
If that doesn't work then your Clutch Switch could be faulty - if the Clutch Switch IS working, then you should be able to CRANK over the engine in ANY gear.
It may not work that way with CANbus but worth a try!...."
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 11, 2018 6:55 pm

Keith,

I added a bit to my last post which you may not have seen:

"....If the problem is only with the Neutral part of the switch, I am wondering if the engine can be cranked over and fired up by pulling in the Clutch lever WITH THE SIDESTAND UP.
This will bypass the GPI Neutral Switch by means of the Clutch Switch allowing the Starter Relay to operate and crank over the engine while the Sidestand being UP will power up the Ignition and Fuel systems.
If that doesn't work then your Clutch Switch could be faulty - if the Clutch Switch IS working, then you should be able to CRANK over the engine in ANY gear.
It may not work that way with CANbus but worth a try!...."
Ok Ced I’ll try that out.
Regards
Keith


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Keith Hillier
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chairman@bmridersclub.com
----------------------------------
2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 11, 2018 7:47 pm

Keith,

I added a bit to my last post which you may not have seen:

"....If the problem is only with the Neutral part of the switch, I am wondering if the engine can be cranked over and fired up by pulling in the Clutch lever WITH THE SIDESTAND UP.
This will bypass the GPI Neutral Switch by means of the Clutch Switch allowing the Starter Relay to operate and crank over the engine while the Sidestand being UP will power up the Ignition and Fuel systems.
If that doesn't work then your Clutch Switch could be faulty - if the Clutch Switch IS working, then you should be able to CRANK over the engine in ANY gear.
It may not work that way with CANbus but worth a try!...."
Ok Ced I’ll try that out.
Regards
Keith


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Hi Ced,
I just went out to my bike and it started as it should and the (N) was correctly shown in the display!
Regards
Keith


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2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Galactic Greyhound
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Galactic Greyhound » Fri May 11, 2018 9:15 pm

Well, you are a lucky sod! :lol:

How reliable is this going to be?
If it fails again, can you get the bike re-started?

I would give the bike a good lengthy trial before using it for your commute!

My bike's laid up here if you want to borrow it.
Ced.

R1100RT 1996.
Sent by Boson Quantum Transmission from the Starship 'Galahad'.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... ing_bosons" - It works!

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 11, 2018 9:20 pm

Well, you are a lucky sod! :lol:

How reliable is this going to be?
If it fails again, can you get the bike re-started?

I would give the bike a good lengthy trial before using it for your commute!

My bike's laid up here if you want to borrow it.
Thanks Ced, I have my K1200rs at present (I’m planning to sell the K) thanks again for all your help.
Regards
Keith


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'Live to ride - ride to live'
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby mike pace » Sat May 12, 2018 8:45 am

Hi, just seen this thread. I had a similar problem with my 55 plate 1200gs. I had been for a very long and wet run. Two da6#later after a run in only light wet conditions I pulled up and stopped the engine. Came back ten mins later and it was dead.
After a lot of investigation it turns out that bikes of this era have a dodgy gear change.
There is a modified part available. Mine cost £145!
At same time I discovered that the clutch switch has also failed but I decided to live with that.
If you get the new part be aware that to fit it you need to remove the starter motor to get to the connection and that the gap between the potentiometer and the swing arm is very tight.

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Sat May 12, 2018 8:48 am

Thanks Mike, I’ll look into it.
Regards
Keith


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Keith Hillier
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----------------------------------
2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 pm

Hi Guys & Gals,
The latest update on my R1200gsa, the bike has been working perfectly all week, no problems with the gear display and hence the starting of the bike.

My next problem is a puncture in the front tyre, I’ve ordered a new tyre.

Regards
Keith


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Keith Hillier
Club Chairman
chairman@bmridersclub.com
----------------------------------
2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

gogs01
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby gogs01 » Fri May 18, 2018 11:02 pm

You don't have the best of luck with punctures .....
Current BMW : 2017MY R1200RT LE in Platinum Bronze :smile:
Previous BMWs : R1200RT SE (2007 then 2010), R1200RT 90th Anniversary model (2013). :smile:

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Ruralman
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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Ruralman » Sat May 19, 2018 12:29 pm

You don't have the best of luck with punctures .....
Indeed Gordon it does seem to plague me over the last couple of years!
Regards
Keith


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Keith Hillier
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chairman@bmridersclub.com
----------------------------------
2006 R1200GSA
2004 K1200rs

'Live to ride - ride to live'
\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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Re: 2006 R1200gsa not turning over

Postby Nena » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:26 am

This should operate the Starter Solenoid which will operate the Starter Motor.
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